Employment contract update request

[eye-of-ra]

Hi everyone, my first post so hope it's in the right place.

My employer has asked me (and everyone else) to sign an updated contract, I'm happy with everything except the change to my holiday entitlement.

My current contract reads 20 days plus bank holidays.

The new one says 28 days including bank holidays.

They have informed me that as a new contract it MUST to be written this way because of the 5.6 thing.

Is this true or can it still be written as 20 plus bank holidays and stay legal?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[boxtops]

Welcome to AB, yes you are in the right place.

I think you will find that many contracts are written like this now, ours certainly are. Because we don't ever work bank holidays, we just ignore the 8 BHs and book our holidays as usual. The "28 inc BH" covers people who work a seven-day shift pattern etc., it means that they now get the same number of statutory holidays as the rest of us, no argument that you are not entitled to a replacement day's hol if they worked on a BH.

[4getmenot]

does it make a difference, same amount of days, I dont understand why you may not sign it?

[eye-of-ra]

Thanks for the help.

I only work 5 days a week and get all BH off as we are closed.

What i am concerned about is that under the new wording the extra BHs in 2011 & 2012 will come out of my new entitlement. Under the old wording they would be extra.

My employer is saying it HAS to be worded as 28 days to be legal.

So my question is, is this true or is it still legal to write it as 20+BH?

[factor-fiction]

I'm not clear what extra bank holidays you mean for 2012.
For 2011 you may find the employer will grant a 29th day for the royal wedding.
I think 20 days plus bank hols could be illegal if it gives someone (say a Tuesday to Saturday worker) less than the statutory minimum of 28 days
I support the employer here- if you get the 20 days plus bank hols you may get more than your fair share of bank hols compared to a part timer so they would feel they were being treated less favourably. The proposed way treats everyone the same.

[woofgang]

if the business is closed, all it means is that at the beginning of the year you will "book" the eight bank holidays off and deduct them from your entitlement leaving you the same 20 days to take as annual leave, the same as now.
WE had this in the NHS where the problem arose of part time folk who never worked on a monday, eg they worked on tuesday to thursday. they lost out big time because most BH's are mondays. By including BH's in the calculation it becomes fair for everyone and easier to calculate. Actually the NHS went to hours of leave instead of days as many part time NHS staff work longer or shorter days.

[eye-of-ra]

The extra BH in 2012 is for the Diamond Jubilee (5th June)

I can see that if the wording ment I would have less than 28 days it would be illegal but im my case it wont.

We also don't have any part timers.

It just seems that the timing of the change (just before the extra BH) is to do us out of the extra bank holiday many other people are going to get.

[4getmenot]

and remember its 29 days this year

[4getmenot]

sorry im being slow,

[woofgang]

sooo ask you boss about the extra BH this year. it isn't relevant that you don't have part timers. The idea is that all employees of the same firm have the same contract framework. Details like salary, notice period and leave allowance may be different but these items are all expressed in the same way. That way MUST cover all types of staff including part timers so that people can see that they are being treated equitably.

I have just checked and your employer doesn't HAVE to give you the extra day off regardless of what it says in your current contract.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12385077
So I'd be nice to him if I was you!

[eye-of-ra]

The managment are saying no desition has been made yet. Probably waiting till after we have all signed the day away.

Quote from the link posted.

"A spokesman for the Department for Business said there is no statutory right to time off for bank and public holidays.

"Any right to time off or extra pay for working on a bank holiday depends on the terms of an employee's contract of employment," said the spokesman."

As it says (and every other site I've looked at) you have no right to the extra day, its down to your contract, and mine (and everyone else's at the company) at the moment says I am. This is why I dont want my contract to change.

Also if it were to change and the govenment were to add another perminant bank holiday at some point in the future that would be another day I would have to take out of my leave. I already have 11 days I cant choose when to take them, 8 BH and 3 in the middle of Christmas and new year when we are closed.

[woofgang]

Even with your old contract, I think that one off extra bank holidays aren't a right but a gift. How far are you prepared to push this given the current climate? When contracts were changed in the NHS to standardise, the rules were quite clear. After the consultation period, provided that the new contract didn't materially change the t and c (which your IMO does not) there was a cut off point at which the old contracts became invalid. If you hadn't signed a new contract, you had effectively resigned and that was that.

[Jet]

Hi there

As far as I can see, 20 days plus bank holidays is the same as 28 days including bank holidays (ok apart form this year due to the royal wedding but perhaps you can negotiate that one?!). Both are legal, and your company will have had to have got the contracts checked over by their legal dept/contracted legal person - so I don't see the issue.

Seriously, there are many people out there without jobs who would jump at the chance to sign it - sign the contract already before you find yourself without a job!

Best of luck
Jet

Sorry to sound harsh, but

[murraymints]

Royal wedding is not actually a bank holiday but a concessionary day..up to your employer if he wants to enter into the spirit of the day..

[Jet]

PS
Welcome to AB! It would be great to put all your info in your original question, having read your other posts I would have added in additioanl info, but I can see woofgang has doen a good job here.

Jet