Caution or Court

[r4904]

My tired daughter (aged 9) would not arise from her bed for school. Eventually and quite late, I managed to get her outside by the car but she was still backchatting me. In a fit of frustration I held her by her coat and said "If you don't get in that car I'll smash your face in". Horribly wrong of me and I'm ashamed of it. Next thing my daughter tells a teacher and the police and Social Sevices want to know about it. I concurred with my daughters story to the police/SSvcs. The police have since contacted me and offered me a simple Caution as they say it constituted Common Assault. The alternative is that they report this to the CPS. As I understand it a Caution still appears on your "record". I regularly take my kids away on foreign holidays but am now aware that some countries will not accept people with records. What do I do? Accept the Caution or risk this being taken to court? Either way I could loose. Would a Crown Court take away my kids holidays over this? I have accepted help from Social Services on parenting and did not strike my child. No Previous for anything. Just embarressed, ashamed, sad and a little scared. Thank you for any help or advice.

[hc4361]

I would not accept the caution. It won't just affect your travel plans, but could affect your job prospects. By accepting a caution you are admitting your guilt.
If you had to have an enhanced crb check for a job the employer would simply see 'caution for common assault on a minor'.
If there is absolutely no history of you striking any of your children I would strongly recommend you refuse the caution.
Much as I strongly dislike it, I hear this sort of talk by mothers to their children almost weekly - I'll f***ing kill you seems to be the favourite threat round here.

[ummmm]

I thought you were still allowed to smack your children?

I wouldn't take the caution either. What you said was pretty unpleasant but to receive a caution for common assault is ridiculous.

[Buenchico]

I'll stick to the 'holidays' bit:

Assuming that you're a UK (or other EU) citizen you have the right to travel to, work in and live in any of the 27 member states. You can't (except under very exceptional circumstances) be banned from entering, even if you've got multiple convictions for GBH, drug-dealing, bank robberies and serious sexual assaults. You've got just as much right to travel to Italy or Latvia as you have to Ipswich or Luton.

The vast majority of non-EU countries place no restrictions on UK citizens entering for the purpose of tourism. Even those countries which require you to obtain a visa hardly ever ask any questions about criminal convictions. The only countries I can think of which do ask about criminal convictions are the USA and Australia. (Canada has a theoretical bar upon anyone with a criminal conviction entering their country but they don't actually ask any questions or require a visa). The US Embassy requires anyone who has ever been arrested (even if totally innocent) or who admits to having committed an offence (e.g. by accepting a caution) to apply for a visa but 'common assault' is not a crime of 'moral turpitude' and doesn't create an automatic bar to entry.

So neither a conviction or a caution is likely to have any effect whatsoever on your future holiday plans (except that you'd have to apply for a visa, rather than travel visa-free, for entry to the USA).

Chris

[tigwig]

I dont think I would accept the caution either as I dont agree that its common assault. How can it be when you didnt hit her? I can sympathise with your situation too as I once lost my temper with my back chatting, tantrumming, screaming daughter although she is younger than yours. She was actually nipping me and trying to run off next to a busy road. I smacked her on the legs and ended up shouting at her. Another parent saw and reported me to SS. They couldnt take any further action as I'd done nothing wrong! It will stay on my 'record' with them now though and makes my blood boil. I was wrong to lose control but hell who doesnt get mad with their kids every now and again. I can honestly say I am frightened now that if one of my kids had an accident I would be accused of hurting them. I hope you get this sorted and try not to feel so bad, you are only human. Let us know what happens.

[New Judge]

You are entering into a minefield here.

Common assault is committed when a defendant intentionally or recklessly causes a victim to apprehend immediate unlawful force, or when such force is used. It can be committed in the form of a threat where no contact occurs. It would have to be up to the prosecutor to show that the victim felt an immediate threat or fear that force is about to be used to cause some degree of personal contact and possible injury. It has been ruled that such a threat cannot be conditional, but has to be immediate and unconditional. In the circumstances you describe they would have to show that your daughter felt genuinely and immediately threatened. My own view (and it’s by no means an “expert” view) is that they would struggle to do so.

If you refuse a caution and they prosecute you they would have to convince a court of the degree of threat that your daughter felt. Many parents “threaten” their children in the way you describe. It would be the prosecution’s burden to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your daughter felt a genuine and immediate threat of violence from you.

Chris has said all that needs to be said about travelling. If you do decide not to accept a caution it might be wise to pay for a brief consultation with a solicitor before you do so.

[brenda]

Would it not have been easier to deny having said it?