Bad / Inadequate parenting?

[Mammar]

The news is full of reports of children who are "going off the rails" in some way or other.
(See "10-year-old Terror" below)
How would you approach the problem of the cycle of inadequate parenting that seems to be over-running the country?

[Oneeyedvic]

"The only thing that has changed is media coverage - naomi says it in her first answer: "Gromit, I don't know which papers you read - I can only presume the Beano, because you're clearly missing something."

"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a rticles /news/news.html?in_article_id=442450&in_page_i d=1770

Go back 40 years - look at the Mods and Rockers kids today are nothing in comparison, so says oneeyedvic. Perhaps he sould read the above link."


I rest my case

[anotheoldgit]

I would read the above link, if it worked and you were able to put two sentences together, so that we could understand your latest post.

[Oneeyedvic]

Sorry, I better make myself clear:

My latest post points out two things

1) I believe the only difference between now and then is media coverage

2) You provide a link to the Daily Mail - probably best known as an inflammatory tabloid.

Hopefully that makes it clear for you. Let me know if you don't understand.

[Pippa68]

I am with you, Oneeyedvic.

[fruitsalad]

and im with you, anotheoldgit

[anotheoldgit]

It is a shame if not somewhat frightening that you think the only difference between now and then is media coverage. How old are you Oneeyedvic? You can have no idea what it was like 40 years ago if you did not live through that era.

I suppose you know that since you posted your last reply, there has been yet another fatal stabbing.

Regarding my Daily Mail link, (unlike yours it did work) I could have used any other source because they are the facts, even though you might not like dealing in the truth.

Pippa68 Can't you be a little more constructive? Talk about the blind following the blind. Not worth you getting involved in intelligent debate, Pippa

[Oneeyedvic]

"How old are you Oneeyedvic? You can have no idea what it was like 40 years ago if you did not live through that era. "

I am 33. Interesting that you think I can't know what it is like if I didn't live then. Maybe you have heard of things like books, talking to people etc. [Or if that is what you truly believe, then surely there can't be any knife attacks unless you personally know some one attacked.]

"because they are the facts, even though you might not like dealing in the truth. "

Do you know how many homicides there were in 2005/6?.

I beg you not to research it, but to guess - but somehow I doubt that you are that brave.

[Pippa68]

Well there really wasn't much point in me repeating everything Oneeyedvic has posted was there..unless you want to read it all again, then of course I shall oblige ;o)

There is no point in you being insulting regarding my intelligence either. I didn't insult you, and in any case I believe it is total lack of respect for others that may be part of causing so much trouble in the world ~ whether today or yesterday.

Is that good enough for you?

[netibiza]

I agree with anotheroldgit. These days parents need to be taught how to parent. An old adage is "Giving birth does make a mother!" How very true.

But even good parents can produce a yob, but hopefully they won't put up with it! or they can guide it back into better channels.(or if all else fails then the English Channel)

[anotheoldgit]

No oneeyedvic I couldn't possibly guess how many murders (english for homicides) there were in 2005/6, it would be like asking me to guess how many red busses pass the Old Bailey in a year.

I do not guess I only deal in facts. So perhaps you will view the following link, all the facts are there to prove my point, regarding the increase in crime.

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/ rp99/rp99-111.pdf

[anotheoldgit]

Pippa68 Looking back in hindsight I suppose it was rather rude of me to question your intelligence, so I opologise profusely,

It was the fact that in debate one should just not agree or disagree with the subject of the debate. Unless one has a point to make to add further substance, for or against, one usually just not bother to enter into the debate.

How often do you see a MP get to his or her feet to just say I agree with my honorable friend, and then sit down?

[Pippa68]

Yes, I see what you mean..

I was actually in the process of posting an answer when I read that Oneeyedvic had basically posted the same thing..and repetitive posts get on my wick ;o)

As for the MPs..I wish some of them would do that!

[Oneeyedvic]

Okay, from the link you provided:

Number of homicides in 1900 - 9.6 per Million people

Number of homicides in 1997 - 14.1 per Million people.

So in almost 100 years the number of homicides has increased by 50%

So in a current polulation of arround 60 Million we can expect around 800 people to be killed.

And you don't think that the problem is overexagerrated for effect - 800 people killed a year. By the way a lot of people talk (and the way the media reports) you would expect that number to be in the tens of thousands.

Please don' get me wrong - I don't think that we live in some sort of wonderful place - what I do ask though is that people do get some sort of proportion.

[anotheoldgit]

No Oneeyedvic at no time have I over exaggerated the crime figures past or present. And I do not think the media has ever reported that the numbers are in the tens of thousands. I think you are doing a little over exaggerating now.

The point that has created the difference of opinions between us Oneeyedvic, is your original statement that the only difference between now and then is media coverage.

I think my research has prove this to be wrong, even if we go back to your example of the Mods and Rockers i.e. Number of murders per million population in England and Wales, 1960 = 6.2, 1997 = 14.1. quite an increase you must admit.

[Mammar]

Have been reading your posts with interest.
Vic - you say "only difference between then and now is media coverage"
If that is so, don't you find it sad that we're not learning from the lessons of the past and making improvements to society?
And Oldgit - if, as you say, it is getting worse, then that makes my comment to Vic even more depressing.
How do we reverse it? Yes, it's a big ask but there have been bigger "asks" for society and we've had breakthroughs before (slavery was the "status quo" once but we sorted that.)
I'd like to think that we could do something more positive than ignore it.

[Oneeyedvic]

Firstly, there was less than 900 homicides in 2005/6. The way the media goes on, I believe that the majority of people think it is in the thousands. (in fact look at Ludwigs answer to you here: http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question38 0997-2.html )

I agree that crime has gone up - and yes Mammar it is a sad reflection of society.

From the figures from AOG's link - the number of homicides went from 6.3 to 10.3 between 1955 and 1975 a percentage increase of over 60%, but from 1975 - 1997 (latest figures), the percentage increase was less than 40% - so (percentage increase wise) the mid 50s to 70s time was worse!

I suppose another interesting thing about media coverage is of course when people see what they want to see - by reading the Daily Mail and similar, you may think that there is lots of black on black crime, where as it is not - as shown in this question: http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question38 0997.html