Latest misuse of the HR act........

[Loosehead]

What is going on? why does the ECHR keep making these loony statements about what is supposedly a HR violation? madness!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4315876.stm

[Loosehead]

remove the </p> from the end of the link.

[youngmafbog]

Absolute madness.  Prison is for punishment, what next annaul holidays in Majorca ?

Europe needs to keep its nose out of our business.  Just proves that the sooner we pull out of Europe the better.

Does anyone know if the French observe this ?

[Loosehead]

Hear Hear Youngmafbog, you may be new here but you're spot on!

[OBonio]

Point made last night on Question Time.

Would Turkey allow its prisoners to vote?

[jake-the-peg]

Youngmafbag and Loosehead did you read the first comment on the story?

There seems to be a worryingly large amount of people who think that the European Court of Human Rights is part of the EU. It is not and is actually based upon a treaty signed in 1953.

Still, it'd be a shame to let facts get in the way of a good rant eh?

With regard to the story I think few people would think I should be allowed to go into a prison and stab a petty thief because I'd had a bad day, so clearly they still have the right to be protected from lunatics like me on a bad day. So it follows that prisoners should still have rights. If we consider that the right to be represented is a valid right then there's quite a strong argument that they should have the vote and just sounding off and calling it "Looney" isn't greatly adding to the debate in a productive manner.

An interesting question is if prisoners had the vote what constiuancy would they be eligable to vote for? Long term prisoners could hardly be considered constituants of where they used to live 10 years ago. Just to stir the pot a bit, it is only 60 years since the University seats of Oxford and Cambridge were abolished perhaps we could have an MP for the prison service - maybe Johnathan Atkin or Jeffry Archer could stand :c) 

[undercovers]

good post jake - logistically it seems very hard to work(though i would love to see someone going round the prisons canvassing support), but morally i don't have any strong objections.

[youngmafbog]

I dont recall seeing anyone mention the EU, you seem to have assumed it.  I advocate pulling out of anything European where we are dictated to.  Trade is something we need agreement on but again not to be dictated to.

With regard to the logic of the prisoner has a right not to be stabbed therefore he/she has the right to a vote, I cannot really see a connection.  Following this in reverse are you saying all those that think a prisoner should not have a vote think they have a right to go and harm a prisoner at a whim ?

[january_bug]

A lot seem to youngmafbog - or at least would like to see all prisoners regularly phyiscally punished.  Comments about burning them all have appeared in AB before. 

I agree with jake-the-peg, although the thing about the right to stab thing did confuse me.  If prisoners are to be able to be rehabilitated and later play a useful role in society, being allowed to vote in their last year of imprisonment would seem sensible. 

But then of course anything that is not totally anti-Europe will get totally poo-poo'd here anyway.  Not long before we all get called Commies. 

[jake-the-peg]

The point about the stabbing was to illustrate that putting somebody in prison does not mean that they have in someway abdicated their human rights by commitiing crimes which is an argument sometimes put forward.

You may however claim that they have abdicated some rights - clearly the right to free movement is abdicated - the question is what rights prisoners should and should not have.

I seem to recall reading "Europe needs to keep it's nose out of our business".

We are part of Europe. We certainly are part of the treaty on human rights. There is no "Europe" poking it's nose in here it's our buisiness.

[january_bug]

jake-the-peg - the mistake you have made here (tic) is to forget that for many users, not liking Europe, means they want to act as if we're not part of Europe.  This means that, as they don't like the group we're a part of, they can pretend that it is "sticking its nose in" where clearly it is not. 

It's the well known children's technique of "if I ignore it for long enough, it will go away".  I feel the hope is that if we ignore Europe for long enough, somehow our membership would expire.  Probably also in the hopes of some, this would revert us back to 1985 or so with Maggie in power etc etc. 

[goldenboy]

it is possible to be held on remand in a british prison and to be entirely innocent. it could happen to any of us. is it permissible for us to then have no human rights?

[bernardo]

It is not a "misuse", and it is not "madness".  I have always believed that prisoners should be allowed to vote.  They are still human and have valid concerns as members of society on issues such as prison conditions and rehabilitation.  They should vote in the home constituency from which they came; otherwise the whole election in a few constituencies would be distorted according to where the prisons are located.

[kaktus]

Just  two points and I'm not going to join the debate as I don't feel qualified.

First, you can't pull out of Europe as Europe is an area, you could however pull out of the European Union. Second ECHR IS NOT a part of the EU but a independent court that concern all of Europe.

I'm sorry if those two points sound a bit snotty, but I sometimes get a bit confused when reading posts on the EU

[El D]

I guess all you speeders should not get the vote either?And of course, pensioners who forego paying their council tax etc etc. Is it the distinction of a custodial sentence which requires the removal of voting rights or the fact they have broken the law?