Indy 7728

[hairs]

Please can you help? 20A Perhaps she's a celeb on the rocks? That can be said (13) ?R?N???C?A?N?

[sandyRoe]

pronounceable ? if the last N's wrong

[Harry-Wragg]

sandyRoe is correct - anagram of pronoun (she) + a celeb

[hairs]

Yes, thanks, forgot the tipex on the n !!! thanks again

[Quizmonkey]

Explanation not quite right: it's PRONOUN + anagram of A CELEB. ie PRONOUN is not included in the anagramming - indirect anagrams are not allowed in cryptic clueing!

[Harry-Wragg]

Says who?

[BigDave44]

Harry

Ever since Ximenes (Derrick Macnutt) put it in his 1966 book 'On the Art of the Crossword' they have been considered as unfair.

"... they should not be indirect anagrams, which only give a synonym of the anagram instead of the anagram itself."

Before you complain, Ximenes' book has made the cryptic crossword what it is today and the vast majority of setters follow his guidelines.

Quizmonkey is technically correct, although it is found in a lot of explanations on AB and is hardly worth pointing out.

[Harry-Wragg]

How are things with you Dave? You always were a big (articulate) bully!!

[BigDave44]

Fine Harry

The blog is still going well - over 6,000 hits per day - and I now run the village website:

http://hanleyswan.net/

Hope you are keeping well yourself.

D

[Quizmonkey]

Harry Wragg: not sure what you're arguing about. The clue works as I explained (with PRONOUN not involved in the anagramming) and is perfectly sound according to accepted clueing convention. I defy you to find any (professional) compiler who resorts to indirect anags (ie. using anagrams involving elements not actually in the clue).

[Harry-Wragg]

Quizmonkey - I wasn't arguing, I was asking. Read BigDave44 (09.48) in the same thread, particularly the last bit. Stay cool, Harry.

[Harry-Wragg]

hairs - sorry about all this - Quizmonkey started it!!

[Quizmonkey]

Sorry too - wasn't trying to start anything: just feel it's important that newcomers to cryptics understand exactly how clues work. Re: Dave: not sure I was just 'technically correct', I was plain correct! Just as the explanation 'anagram of pronoun (she) + a celeb' is plain wrong :)

[Harry-Wragg]

Quizmonkey - apology accepted.