Listener 4147 OZ and WR by Theod

[starwalker]

Having seen that this has a Playcode code, I was intending to put it to one side. Having failed at that, I now find myself within an ace of finishing. Much easier than I expected, but I realise that for some that this will be a bete noir.
Thanks Theod.

[AndrewG-S]

Nothing wrong with sitting comfortably in the Home Counties. One day it may be possible to e-mail a Listener solution giving you overseas folk more time - I assume then you will go back to pencil and paper to solve and give up electronic aids?

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, and I suppose those little folded wrens would be able to fly for themselves and the grids with holes cut in them -- well, the mind boggles. (But wouldn't it be a good thing if we could email solutions?)

[pushmi-pullyu]

Some of them might be tricky to email - I seem to remember one a few years back which had to be folded in origami fashion.

[Philoctetes]

What constitutes an aid? Mrs P - who needs help with the Times 2 daily crossword - tries to wind me up by calling me a cheat for using the dictionary. Ad absurdum, is it cheating to use a pencil that can be rubbed out? Is it cheating to pay a small subscription to the Times so that you have an extra 8 hours sight of the grid? Ah yes, Mrs P - do I cheat if I ask her opinion? To my mind, cheating could only consist of obtaining a copy of the answers from the setters before the deadline, and even then you are only cheating yourself. Yes, even posting a request for an answer here is no worse than asking your mate in the pub - putting an answer up en claire, now that's a different matter, but it ain't cheating. I suppose there will be many who disagree with me to some extent, but the only alternative is to sit all contenders in a locked room for the duration.

[Clamzy]

An extra eight hours?? Does your Times arrive at midnight:-)

[AndrewG-S]

I don't think any of the use of aids is cheating (deceiving? defrauding? - not really). So I think all are valid and it really comes down to whatever gives the most pleasure. For me a solve with just the BRB is most rewarding, especially if I can get theme without reference to ODQ/Internet. How often does this happen? not a lot. But I always start trying this. As I get progressively more frustrated then I would move down the line of aids referred to (Internet, Quinalplus, mates at pub etc.), although I had not thought of asking a setter! This makes it less satisfying to finish but by this stage I am usually tearing my hair out so don't care. I am also under time pressure to finish at the weekend and would probably savour the things longer and use less of the aids if this were not the case.

[Clamzy]

This topic has been discussed here and elsewhere many times and Philoc summed it up nicely. In my case I don't have the skills to use spreadsheets for my favourites, the number puzzles, but can understand how, for many, they take out much of the long slog. Not much point in having extra skills if you don't use them.