ChatterBank0 min ago
Leasehold house
My property is leasehold ground rent is £3.00 a year. I have absolute title.
I have now discovered the freehold was purchased for both my property and next door (semis) in 2008. Property is circa 1890 999 year lease.
The land registry has no record of the lease. Is the lease different to the register of title?
Are there any implications regarding the LR not having a record.
My solicitor has written to the freeholder to see if they have a copy.
I thought the leaseholder should have first refusal to purchase the freehold or is this just the case if the property was a flat?
I have now discovered the freehold was purchased for both my property and next door (semis) in 2008. Property is circa 1890 999 year lease.
The land registry has no record of the lease. Is the lease different to the register of title?
Are there any implications regarding the LR not having a record.
My solicitor has written to the freeholder to see if they have a copy.
I thought the leaseholder should have first refusal to purchase the freehold or is this just the case if the property was a flat?
Answers
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Are you saying you have a long lease & the Land Registry has no record of it? Do you mean your title is not registered at all? If that is the case, then your solicitor certainly needs to advise you on what to do to correct the position. Also, whichever solicitor acted for you when you bought the property (unless that was many years ago) would appear to have been negligent in not making sure your title was registered.
Are you also saying you do not have a copy of your lease? Again, the solicitor who acted for you when you bought should have made sure one was provided - I don't see how he/she could have processed the purchase without having one - & should have let you have one. More negligence?
I don't think the sale of the freehold is really relevant. There is nothing to stop a freeholder selling to someone else, & the purchaser takes subject to the terms of the leases. As regards whether you should have had an opportunity to buy the freehold, ask for advice here:
http://www.lease-advice.org/
Are you also saying you do not have a copy of your lease? Again, the solicitor who acted for you when you bought should have made sure one was provided - I don't see how he/she could have processed the purchase without having one - & should have let you have one. More negligence?
I don't think the sale of the freehold is really relevant. There is nothing to stop a freeholder selling to someone else, & the purchaser takes subject to the terms of the leases. As regards whether you should have had an opportunity to buy the freehold, ask for advice here:
http://www.lease-advice.org/
Do you have leasehold title registered in your name? Most likely a printout of the property register from the Land Registry showing your title number, details, you as owner etc...
Your leasehold title will have it's own disctinct leasehold title number if it is registered with the Land Registry. The freehold has it's own disctinct title number(s).
Your title is the lease and anything else affecting your interest in the land (eg charges such as mortgages). The lease is the main ownership document setting out the length, rent, terms etc... of the ownership.
The titles layer on each other ie freehold as ultimate title, your leasehold as a title as a layer above that....
When did you purchase the lease (in case before compulsory registration)? Can you ever remember seeing a copy of the lease eg when you purchased or there were any other circumstances in which you acquired the property which could account for this eg left it under a will or purchase it at an auction or similar with limited details available or didn't use a legal advisor?
The Land Registry would, these days, copy the Lease and store it electronically if the property is registered. If it is registered I would be surprised if you have absolute title as, if the LR has never seen the Lease, I wouldn't have thought they would have granted that, more likely good leasehold title so, if you have title absolute then it would suggest a copy of the lease has been seen by the LR somewhere along the line.
Also bear in mind that leases can be split, the original lease could have covered a much larger area than just your property, especially as it's an old one. It may be that the original leasehold was sold off in parts and now consists of a number of separate leasehold titles (if that makes sense) so, if this is the case, it may be more likely that there is a copy obtainable somewhere in someone's title/deeds/records.
Your leasehold title will have it's own disctinct leasehold title number if it is registered with the Land Registry. The freehold has it's own disctinct title number(s).
Your title is the lease and anything else affecting your interest in the land (eg charges such as mortgages). The lease is the main ownership document setting out the length, rent, terms etc... of the ownership.
The titles layer on each other ie freehold as ultimate title, your leasehold as a title as a layer above that....
When did you purchase the lease (in case before compulsory registration)? Can you ever remember seeing a copy of the lease eg when you purchased or there were any other circumstances in which you acquired the property which could account for this eg left it under a will or purchase it at an auction or similar with limited details available or didn't use a legal advisor?
The Land Registry would, these days, copy the Lease and store it electronically if the property is registered. If it is registered I would be surprised if you have absolute title as, if the LR has never seen the Lease, I wouldn't have thought they would have granted that, more likely good leasehold title so, if you have title absolute then it would suggest a copy of the lease has been seen by the LR somewhere along the line.
Also bear in mind that leases can be split, the original lease could have covered a much larger area than just your property, especially as it's an old one. It may be that the original leasehold was sold off in parts and now consists of a number of separate leasehold titles (if that makes sense) so, if this is the case, it may be more likely that there is a copy obtainable somewhere in someone's title/deeds/records.
Many thanks for brilliant answers. I have a copy of the register of title which shows me as having title absolute, and states the property is leasehold circa 1890 999 yr lease, so is this the actual lease as well, it's very confusing. It does give 2 names next to the lease bit but thats all and they are dated 1980 and 1982. Solicitor went to get a copy of the lease but she said the land reg do not have it, thats where im getting confused. So yes it its a long lease and i have no copy, but the title is registered, i only bought it in 2001, and when i first moved in i paid the ground rent to the lady next door as it was up to her to collect it apparently but since she died no one collected and i didnt no who to pay it to, its only since ive come to remortgage that this has come to light. So the first solicitor must of seen lease then?? But this solicitor is saying the land reg now have no copy of the lease, sorry to be confusing but confused i am.
I would have thought something would have been seen at some point for the absolute title. A missing lease would normally be seen as a defect and only good leasehold title registered and an indemnity insurance policy is often put in place (lender would usually require that).
I would assume your solicitor obtained and checked any deeds you had. Can you remember seeing a lease when you purchased? There could be some information from when you purchased in the report on title you should have had from the solicitor then which would usually also provide a copy of the lease. Being an old one though they may have just explained the relevant terms although they may also have noted if no copy was available at the time or any similar issue. Are you using the same law firm or could your solicitor make enquiries of your former solicitors if not?
Once the title was registered the LR would not have needed another copy of the lease on further dealings (purchase, remortgage etc...). These days you have to provide a copy as well and ask for the original back and as they just tend to scan a copy to hold electronically then destroy originals not requested back. It may be it's got lost along the way somewhere and they never took a copy as if you bought in 2001 it may well have been registered beforehand when LR may have just photocopied documents (and may even have lost a copy).
If the original lease covered more than just your property when granted then it might be worth your solicitor checking if there are copies lodged under any other title numbers (it would normally say on the title if that were the case but worth an enquiry).
I'd say a chat with the appropriate LR would be worth a try generally as it might shed some more light. Your solicitor might have done this already but may have just sent off a request for the document which came back as there wasn't a copy without any further background detail. They can be very helpful.
Administrative errors do happen (eg copy lease not noted on the computer system as being held in relation to the title) so always worth bearing in mind it could be something simple.
Let us know how you get on.
I would assume your solicitor obtained and checked any deeds you had. Can you remember seeing a lease when you purchased? There could be some information from when you purchased in the report on title you should have had from the solicitor then which would usually also provide a copy of the lease. Being an old one though they may have just explained the relevant terms although they may also have noted if no copy was available at the time or any similar issue. Are you using the same law firm or could your solicitor make enquiries of your former solicitors if not?
Once the title was registered the LR would not have needed another copy of the lease on further dealings (purchase, remortgage etc...). These days you have to provide a copy as well and ask for the original back and as they just tend to scan a copy to hold electronically then destroy originals not requested back. It may be it's got lost along the way somewhere and they never took a copy as if you bought in 2001 it may well have been registered beforehand when LR may have just photocopied documents (and may even have lost a copy).
If the original lease covered more than just your property when granted then it might be worth your solicitor checking if there are copies lodged under any other title numbers (it would normally say on the title if that were the case but worth an enquiry).
I'd say a chat with the appropriate LR would be worth a try generally as it might shed some more light. Your solicitor might have done this already but may have just sent off a request for the document which came back as there wasn't a copy without any further background detail. They can be very helpful.
Administrative errors do happen (eg copy lease not noted on the computer system as being held in relation to the title) so always worth bearing in mind it could be something simple.
Let us know how you get on.
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