Family & Relationships7 mins ago
Why do the main religions require followers to pray?
59 Answers
If their idol is so great, surely it would know the prayers thoughts and take that as devotion....... or is this praying business another tact to make the followers think they are doing something 'good'.
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There are several offenses against common sense in your question...
" Among the ancients there was a threefold error concerning prayer. Some held that human affairs are not ruled by Divine providence; whence it would follow that it is useless to pray and to worship God at all: of these it is written (Malachi 3:14): "You have said: He laboreth in vain that serveth God." Another opinion held that all things, even in human affairs, happen of necessity, whether by reason of the unchangeableness of Divine providence, or through the compelling influence of the stars, or on account of the connection of causes: and this opinion also excluded the utility of prayer. There was a third opinion of those who held that human affairs are indeed ruled by Divine providence, and that they do not happen of necessity; yet they deemed the disposition of Divine providence to be changeable, and that it is changed by prayers and other things pertaining to the worship of God. All these opinions were disproved in I, 19, 7,8; I, 22, 2,4; I, 115, 6; I, 116. Wherefore it behooves us so to account for the utility of prayer as neither to impose necessity on human affairs subject to Divine providence, nor to imply changeableness on the part of the Divine disposition.
In order to throw light on this question we must consider that Divine providence disposes not only what effects shall take place, but also from what causes and in what order these effects shall proceed. Now among other causes human acts are the causes of certain effects. Wherefore it must be that men do certain actions. not that thereby they may change the Divine disposition, but that by those actions they may achieve certain effects according to the order of the Divine disposition: and the same is to be said of natural causes. And so is it with regard to prayer. For we pray not that we may change the Divine disposition, but that we may impetrate that which God has disposed to be fulfilled by our prayers in other words "that by asking, men may deserve to receive what Almighty God from eternity has disposed to give," as Gregory says (Dial. i, 8) "
" Among the ancients there was a threefold error concerning prayer. Some held that human affairs are not ruled by Divine providence; whence it would follow that it is useless to pray and to worship God at all: of these it is written (Malachi 3:14): "You have said: He laboreth in vain that serveth God." Another opinion held that all things, even in human affairs, happen of necessity, whether by reason of the unchangeableness of Divine providence, or through the compelling influence of the stars, or on account of the connection of causes: and this opinion also excluded the utility of prayer. There was a third opinion of those who held that human affairs are indeed ruled by Divine providence, and that they do not happen of necessity; yet they deemed the disposition of Divine providence to be changeable, and that it is changed by prayers and other things pertaining to the worship of God. All these opinions were disproved in I, 19, 7,8; I, 22, 2,4; I, 115, 6; I, 116. Wherefore it behooves us so to account for the utility of prayer as neither to impose necessity on human affairs subject to Divine providence, nor to imply changeableness on the part of the Divine disposition.
In order to throw light on this question we must consider that Divine providence disposes not only what effects shall take place, but also from what causes and in what order these effects shall proceed. Now among other causes human acts are the causes of certain effects. Wherefore it must be that men do certain actions. not that thereby they may change the Divine disposition, but that by those actions they may achieve certain effects according to the order of the Divine disposition: and the same is to be said of natural causes. And so is it with regard to prayer. For we pray not that we may change the Divine disposition, but that we may impetrate that which God has disposed to be fulfilled by our prayers in other words "that by asking, men may deserve to receive what Almighty God from eternity has disposed to give," as Gregory says (Dial. i, 8) "
Believers often claim that it is not the purpose of prayer to ask God for things but, in fact, it often appears to be: praying for a sick person to recover or a missing person to be found, and so on.
Why are these believers not worried about the fact -obvious even from everyday life, let alone scientific analysis - that there is no evidence that prayers are answered. The desired things sometimes happen purely as you would expect by chance and the law of averages. Do believers never concern themselves with this?
Why are these believers not worried about the fact -obvious even from everyday life, let alone scientific analysis - that there is no evidence that prayers are answered. The desired things sometimes happen purely as you would expect by chance and the law of averages. Do believers never concern themselves with this?
naomi, if you ever wanted further evidence that there is no point in engaging with keyplus, that exchange you had with him on the previous page is surely it. There is rarely any connection between what you say to him and what he says in return. I think he must have invented some sort of Random Reply Generator.
Why does Naomi not respond to pa___ul3's post ? Why does that false dichotomy not stick out ? You ask God AND you go about doing your best. Both things. The Jesuits say : Pray and keep on rowing. And :Act as if everyting depended on you, pray as if everything depended on God.
Take the matter of sickness and prayer. That false dichotomy never appears in the Bible or in early Jewish and Christian piety. Rather the following is typical:
Sirach Chapter 38
1 Honour a physician with the honour due unto him for the uses which ye may have of him: for the Lord hath created him.
2 For of the most High cometh healing
Yes, I am about to leave this forum because nobody argues logically.
That is a blatant logical and rhetorical error, to falsely argue a dichotomy.
False Dichotomy
The fallacy of false dichotomy is committed when the arguer claims that his conclusion is one of only two options, when in fact there are other possibilities. The arguer then goes on to show that the 'only other option' is clearly outrageous, and so his preferred conclusion must be embraced.
Either you let me go to the Family Values Tour, or I'll be miserable for the rest of my life. I know you don't want me to be miserable for the rest of my life, so you should let me go to the concert.
Either you use Speed Stick deodorant, or you will stink to high heaven. You don't want to stink, so you better by Speed Stick.
Either I keep smoking, or I'll get fat. I don't want to get fat, so I better keep smoking.
Either we keep Charles Manson in jail, or we release him, thus risking murder, carnage, and mayhem. We don't want murder, carnage, or mayhem, so we had better keep him in jail.
Take the matter of sickness and prayer. That false dichotomy never appears in the Bible or in early Jewish and Christian piety. Rather the following is typical:
Sirach Chapter 38
1 Honour a physician with the honour due unto him for the uses which ye may have of him: for the Lord hath created him.
2 For of the most High cometh healing
Yes, I am about to leave this forum because nobody argues logically.
That is a blatant logical and rhetorical error, to falsely argue a dichotomy.
False Dichotomy
The fallacy of false dichotomy is committed when the arguer claims that his conclusion is one of only two options, when in fact there are other possibilities. The arguer then goes on to show that the 'only other option' is clearly outrageous, and so his preferred conclusion must be embraced.
Either you let me go to the Family Values Tour, or I'll be miserable for the rest of my life. I know you don't want me to be miserable for the rest of my life, so you should let me go to the concert.
Either you use Speed Stick deodorant, or you will stink to high heaven. You don't want to stink, so you better by Speed Stick.
Either I keep smoking, or I'll get fat. I don't want to get fat, so I better keep smoking.
Either we keep Charles Manson in jail, or we release him, thus risking murder, carnage, and mayhem. We don't want murder, carnage, or mayhem, so we had better keep him in jail.
TruthAbounds //I have had prayers answered. I've also prayed and not had them answered. //
Sounds like random outcomes to me. Sometimes things work out how you want and other times they don't. Does praying really make any difference?
I don't pray and sometimes the things I want happen while other times they don't. The difference is that you attribute the outcomes you prayed for as being answeres fro God why you assume that God had some unknown reason not to fulfill the others.
Sounds like random outcomes to me. Sometimes things work out how you want and other times they don't. Does praying really make any difference?
I don't pray and sometimes the things I want happen while other times they don't. The difference is that you attribute the outcomes you prayed for as being answeres fro God why you assume that God had some unknown reason not to fulfill the others.
Truthabounds - your reply to me shows that you no idea how to judge the results of any test. Of course some of your prayers are going to be 'answered' and others not; that's how the laws of chance work. It would be very odd indeed if all your prayers were answered and equally odd if none was.
Also, you make yoir own rules as to what it is right to pray for, which means that your test is of no objective value at all. I'll start a new thread on this.
Also, you make yoir own rules as to what it is right to pray for, which means that your test is of no objective value at all. I'll start a new thread on this.
Beso:
The counsel to persevere in prayer indicates that God at times may allow us to keep on praying about a matter for a while before his response becomes apparent. We might even tend to get fed up of petitioning God for favour or loving-kindness that may seem sorely needed but long deferred. Hence, Almighty God entreats us not to yield to any such leaning but to keep on praying. We should continue petitioning him about our concerns, confident that he respects our prayer and will meet our real need, not simply what we may have reasoned out. God no doubt balances our petitions according to his purpose.
Definitely not random – take for example a father with 2 sons. The elder one wants a bicycle so father gets him one. The father knows that the younger will also wants a bicycle because his brother has one. The father decides it is not the time get him a bike, why? Possibly he feels his son is too young or that he is not yet ready for one.
The same with our Heavenly Father. No matter how much we may desire a thing God knows that it is perhaps not in our best interests at that time.
Chakka35:
Don’t tell me that I don’t know how to judge! I have reason to know without any doubt whatsoever when my prayers have been answered or not. It is not down to chance!! Who do you think you are? You are certainly not God and I resent the fact that you presume to tell me my prayers are only answered on a “chance” basis.
The counsel to persevere in prayer indicates that God at times may allow us to keep on praying about a matter for a while before his response becomes apparent. We might even tend to get fed up of petitioning God for favour or loving-kindness that may seem sorely needed but long deferred. Hence, Almighty God entreats us not to yield to any such leaning but to keep on praying. We should continue petitioning him about our concerns, confident that he respects our prayer and will meet our real need, not simply what we may have reasoned out. God no doubt balances our petitions according to his purpose.
Definitely not random – take for example a father with 2 sons. The elder one wants a bicycle so father gets him one. The father knows that the younger will also wants a bicycle because his brother has one. The father decides it is not the time get him a bike, why? Possibly he feels his son is too young or that he is not yet ready for one.
The same with our Heavenly Father. No matter how much we may desire a thing God knows that it is perhaps not in our best interests at that time.
Chakka35:
Don’t tell me that I don’t know how to judge! I have reason to know without any doubt whatsoever when my prayers have been answered or not. It is not down to chance!! Who do you think you are? You are certainly not God and I resent the fact that you presume to tell me my prayers are only answered on a “chance” basis.
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