Listener 4159 - Crovvword by Pointer

[starwalker]

Some lovely clues have brought me to the point where I just have to find the third item to illustrate, and I feel a need to rest. Thanks (in advance) Pointer. You have enlightened me and revived long-lost lessons.

[Mysterons]

Thanks Cruncher and logophile - the following site gives an excellent summary of the geometry involved, but don't look if you've not finished the puzzle please ! I have replaced 3 spoiler words in the link. Two are of 6 letters (xxxxxx), the first of these starts 'v', the other starts 's', being the 6-letter words referred to above. The middle word (xxxxxxxx) is the topmost highlighted thematic item from the grid.

http://surfacefragmen...-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxx.html

[Mysterons]

Sorry, should have removed the http// !!

surfacefragments.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-to-
draw-xxxxxx-or-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxx.html

[TheBear69]

Anyone who would claim that a huge amount has not been revealed at this point is self-delusional; you all might as well just post the solution. Even if you cannot guess what the xxxxxx's should be, anyone who cares to try can resolve that url.

[AHearer]

I'm back to support RuthRobin and TheBear69: I think the recent stages of this discussion have gone far beyond what we normally expect on the Listener thread. I could be grumpier, but I think this week's award for grumpiness has already been awarded.

[emcee]

Me too. Far too much has been given away, which is neither fair on those who've done it nor, more importantly, the setter.

[abns]

It's an interesting question - I like the fact that you can come here to get the gentle hint you need when you're ready to give up but want to finish the crossword without being handed the solution on the plate. On that basis as long as the responses don't give any blatant answers or give the game away on the face of the response I can't get too excited. On that basis I have no problem with any of the comments on this thread including the "xxxxxx" url - if you choose to look at the website before you finish the crossword then you're only cheating yourself.

[LankyLanky]

abns, I agree entirely. I was away until yesterday evening and completed the puzzle today before looking in on answerbank.
Because it is the answerbank, some people who want to get assistance along the way can reasonably expect that. The safest thing, if fastidious, is not to look in until after completing the puzzle.

I sympathise with some contributors who thought that the final part of the puzzle was a bit fussy. Non-contiguous word searches have just a hint of a construction flaw.

[Listenerite]

I suspect this will be the grumpiest post on this thread. The Answerbank seems to have been reasonably restrained in recent months when it comes to help, with (normally) only oblique-ish hints given. This thread really is beyond the pale, however. Only an imbecile could fail to get the endgame from what's been posted. Why is there any need for this?!?

Whilst recognising that some solvers such as RuthRobin try to mitigate what happens here, and post only gentle hints (if any at all), others just seem to give up at the slightest sign of anything remotely difficult, and seek help, which others are prepared to give in public even if it ruins the puzzle for everybody else.

If you can't do the puzzle, live with it, wait until you see the solution, and learn from it. Have some patience, for pity's sake. It's threads like this that devalue the world's most challenging crossword series, and mean that we may as well all be solving a redtop teatime definition puzzle. Good grief.

[starwalker]

Yep - that's pretty grumpy and pretty accurate.

[Philoctetes]

To be honest, I think Listnerite is being slightly unfair - the "hints" given week in week out are rarely more than encouragement of the "you're on the right lines" level, and do not devalue the crossword. Most accept that, and, IMHO, this enhances the Listener-attempting community, and, rather, enhances the Listener.
And then there is Mysterons. You know whenever he posts that he is going to spill all the beans, as he has in this thread. So, please, Mysterons, can you show a little more self-restraint. You know you are crossing the line - why else "replace the spoiler words"?

[AndrewG-S]

Yes, I agree this went too far. But I notice that we have a lot of new solvers and contributors to the site, so hopefully some of this is just getting to grips with the dos and don'ts as regards the Listener.

[LankyLanky]

Ruthrobin, I believe that one of the first puzzles this year was on the theme of particle physics (not nuclear physics). Some of the particles mentioned in the puzzle don't belong in atomic nuclei.

[abns]

I don't understand how mysteron's post is worse than the practice of giving the answer away by email, which many people seem happy to do...

[AndrewG-S]

What the email allows is for someone who is struggling to set out in more detail where they have got to and what their thoughts are and ask if they are on the right track. Obviously they could not do this on this site without breaching the rules. I am pretty happy if someone does this to tell them whether or not they are on the right track and if not to give a gentle hint in the right direction. Usually people are very close to cracking it so a nudge does the trick. I would not simply give the answer, but when someone is close after hours of staring I think a nudge is OK.

[jim360]

I think I finally got the point of the title of this one - based on the word you have to enter underneath the grid. An enjoyable puzzle, especially the PDM with the hidden message!

By the way, I didn't take a week to do this, finished it on Monday I think.

[ichkeria]

Listenerite, there is one obvious antedote to the problem you mention: simply stay away from the thread.
On the other hand, I agree that gentle hints for beginners are not going to work if certain people go too far.