Quizzes & Puzzles1 min ago
Should we really believe all we are told?
In the middle of last week, Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond jumped on the EU scaremongering bandwagon and suggested that David Cameron’s use of the veto against the proposed changed to the Lisbon Treaty might harm the Scottish fishing industry:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...and-politics-16174703
Today it is reported that the talks, though not producing an entirely satisfactory result, went relatively well for the UK and were seemingly in no way influenced by the Prime Minister's outrageous display of dissent:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16230086
The BBC's Andy Moore says Britain had French and German support in battling against cuts that could have been disastrous for the UK fishing fleet.
So, what else can we believe of the dire consequences forecast by the doom mongers following the Prime Minister’s “childish truculence”?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...and-politics-16174703
Today it is reported that the talks, though not producing an entirely satisfactory result, went relatively well for the UK and were seemingly in no way influenced by the Prime Minister's outrageous display of dissent:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16230086
The BBC's Andy Moore says Britain had French and German support in battling against cuts that could have been disastrous for the UK fishing fleet.
So, what else can we believe of the dire consequences forecast by the doom mongers following the Prime Minister’s “childish truculence”?
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Politicians say what they think will win support for their causes. When there is multiple aims then one has to consider the situation carefully to even begin to understand it. IMO Alex clearly wishes to break Scotland from the UK no matter what he claims. Usually it is mere semantics and paperwork that is used to claim otherwise. And then, as small countries are at a disadvantage, he will probably need to cuddle up to the EU for support. So, to me, he seems to be trying to hit 2 birds with the 1 stone.
Salmond wants the break but thankfully there still appears the greater majority in Scotland don't want full Independence, I'm one of them.
I'd say this as well, If as a nation we've wanted the break since the 1700 when the Act of Union Joined Scotland to England why on earth would you want to sign up to another controlling state mechanism like the EU. Within the UK there's the chance we'll eventually have a referendum and pull out of Europe, Salmond keeps his euro nonsense up theres no way I'll vote for independence. Dance to Sarkozy's tune.....hell would freeze over first!
I'd say this as well, If as a nation we've wanted the break since the 1700 when the Act of Union Joined Scotland to England why on earth would you want to sign up to another controlling state mechanism like the EU. Within the UK there's the chance we'll eventually have a referendum and pull out of Europe, Salmond keeps his euro nonsense up theres no way I'll vote for independence. Dance to Sarkozy's tune.....hell would freeze over first!
Yes, VHG, of course you’re quite right. As I pointed out last week in another question the French have not been unknown to scupper plans for a reform of the Common Agricultural Policy and the Spanish are none too keen to see reform of the fishing policy. They are simply looking after their own national interests and good luck to them.
So why was David Cameron’s action last week deemed so reprehensible and brought forecasts of such cataclysmic consequences?
So why was David Cameron’s action last week deemed so reprehensible and brought forecasts of such cataclysmic consequences?
i was watching a programme the other evening with i think Frank Skinner, i'm sketchy on detail because i can't seem to get my addled flu/cold ridden brain into gear, but sure it was he. He was speaking to an audience of Scots, up in Scotland, there's a surprise, and was having one of those interesting debates with some banter thrown in, and asked the audience whether it was their wish to break the union, and the majority said no. They weren't a large group, but if they are in any way representative of people in Scotland, what would it achieve if Alex Salmond gets his way. A few days before he had made a comment as to why he wasn't consulted over Cameron's comments when he was at the summit, but why should he be? after all if he gets his wish then surely he will able to set the agenda for Scotland with the EU, as opposed to DC.
Yes, em, you’re quite right. Mr Salmond obviously suffers from delusions of grandeur, at least as far as this matter is concerned.
The UK’s membership of and its relationship with the EU is not a matter for the Scottish Parliament, still less its First Minister. David Cameron discussed the issue of the revised treaty with his ministers (at least of whom represents a Scottish constituency) and voted in accordance with those discussions.
The UK’s membership of and its relationship with the EU is not a matter for the Scottish Parliament, still less its First Minister. David Cameron discussed the issue of the revised treaty with his ministers (at least of whom represents a Scottish constituency) and voted in accordance with those discussions.
EU membership is entirely fitting as a matter for Alex Salmond since he commands a majority in a parliament and his party is seeking independance from the UK.
Scottish voters quite rightly ask him what an independant Scotland's relationship with the EU would be whether that would involve membership of the Euro etc.
When he's held his referendum - and all the signs are he will lose it - I think then, and only then, you might have a point.
Salmond's point about Cameron's isolation in Europe is valid but stretched.
In all international diplomacy getting your way is about making alliances and Cameron has singularly failed to do that.
Not in what he has done but in the way he has done it, in seeking to play to the little Englanders on his back benchers he's irritated a lot of people who'se help he may need in the future.
It may make it harder for him to wield any influence in the future but to stretch that to a specific item like Scottish fishing is a bit of a leap - and that point was put to him a number of times on the interview if you heard it.
Scottish voters quite rightly ask him what an independant Scotland's relationship with the EU would be whether that would involve membership of the Euro etc.
When he's held his referendum - and all the signs are he will lose it - I think then, and only then, you might have a point.
Salmond's point about Cameron's isolation in Europe is valid but stretched.
In all international diplomacy getting your way is about making alliances and Cameron has singularly failed to do that.
Not in what he has done but in the way he has done it, in seeking to play to the little Englanders on his back benchers he's irritated a lot of people who'se help he may need in the future.
It may make it harder for him to wield any influence in the future but to stretch that to a specific item like Scottish fishing is a bit of a leap - and that point was put to him a number of times on the interview if you heard it.
But the UK’s membership of the EU is not Mr Salmond’s concern, jake. It is a matter for the UK Parliament of which Mr Salmond is not a member. The fact that he is attempting to secure Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK makes it no more a matter for him than it is for the mayor of Wigan.
Of course voters in Scottish elections (and in any possible referendum) are interested in his view of Scotland’s membership of the EU should it become an independent nation state, but that is an entirely unrelated matter. Presumably Scotland will have to apply to become a candidate nation (after the current official candidates, Croatia, Iceland, Macedonia, and Turkey have gained entry). I imagine they will then join the “reserve” list of Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro and Serbia. I also imagine some show will be made about them having to meet the entry criteria, but if past experience is anything to go by, that should not present insurmountable problems.
But, back to my original point, it seems that the catastrophic consequences of Mr Cameron’s intransigence forecast a week ago may not be quite so disastrous after all. Even Mrs Merkel seems to have warmed to DC!
Of course voters in Scottish elections (and in any possible referendum) are interested in his view of Scotland’s membership of the EU should it become an independent nation state, but that is an entirely unrelated matter. Presumably Scotland will have to apply to become a candidate nation (after the current official candidates, Croatia, Iceland, Macedonia, and Turkey have gained entry). I imagine they will then join the “reserve” list of Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro and Serbia. I also imagine some show will be made about them having to meet the entry criteria, but if past experience is anything to go by, that should not present insurmountable problems.
But, back to my original point, it seems that the catastrophic consequences of Mr Cameron’s intransigence forecast a week ago may not be quite so disastrous after all. Even Mrs Merkel seems to have warmed to DC!
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