Late Payment Charge

[Kaytee26]

I have an account with Empire which is now KandCo on 20 week interest free terms. I pay regularly on the due day, or just before, via their website. I then get confirmation by email of the payment. I placed an order which took my balance to £61.37 which works out at approx £12.26 per 4-week period. My first payment was due 30th October and I paid it online as usual but they then applied a charge of £12.00 for late payment as they processed the payment on 31st October.

The next statement arrived and they wanted a minimum payment of approx £27.00. I paid them £20.00 on time but they then applied another charge of £12.00 for not paying them enough. When I asked for an explanation they did not provide one. The next payment was due on 23rd December and I paid them off, minus the charges on 21st December. They have now applied another £12.00 as the payment on 21st December was late!!!!

I have 2 questions. 1 - if they always accept payments, via the website, on the due date, can they suddenly change their policy and charge late payment fees. 2 - I have never signed a credit agreement with them so are these fees enforceable.

I feel threatened by their attitude. Their email response was

"As detailed in our help pages and on the reverse of your statement "Please allow 7 working days for payments made by post, and 4 working days for payments made by all other methods.

Although you may have made your payment on the due date, the payment should have reached us on your account by that date to avoid charges."

Help please!!

[squarebear]

If your payment was due on the 30th October, when did you actually send it for payment?

[Mamyalynne]

The devil is in the detail here,

' 4 working days for payments made by all other methods'

[Kaytee26]

I paid it on their website on 30th October and have email confirmation of the payment dated 30th October.

The '4 working days' bit may be in the small print but I always pay on or around the due date and it has never been a problem before. Is there not a precedent there?

[ubasses]

You will probably find it in their terms and conditions which you would have had to agree to when opening the account. A lot of these catalogues have the payments credited to their Bank account and then have to credit your account with them so it takes longer. Whether you are making a Bill Payment via internet banking or allowing them to debit you via your bank card 3 working days is probably the minimum.

[squarebear]

Indeed. That was what I was trying tio establish. If the payment was due on the 30th October, you should have paid it by the 25th at the latest. It is improtant that you read the terms and conditions of any deal before you sign up.

[factor-fiction]

I think the extract you provided from the statements makes it clear that, just as with a credit card for example, the payment needs to have reached your account by the due date, and that probably means if you pay online you need to pay a couple of days before .
I would be very surprised if they were providing credit to you if you hadn't signed/agreed on line to the credit agreement.
But if you have been a good customer , pay what they ask in good time next time and then write to a senior manager explaining that these charges came as a great surprise and you would like them to refund them as a goodwill gesture, otherwise you may not be able to afford to do business with them in future

[Mamyalynne]

You could indeed argue that with them if it has worked in the past, I agree it is shoddy but they do tend to adhere to their terms usually. I must admit I always pay early and above minimum amount per month but realise not everyone can.

[buildersmate]

If the account has been taken over by another organisation, you were pushing your luck to run the thing to the final day before paying. One cannot assume the new account owner's system works exactly the same way.
I think you will find it is your job to get the money into the system in adequate time to enable crediting by the required date.
Presumably you signed an agreement with Empire; if so trying to hide behind 'no agreement signed with KandCo' won't work either.
You can keep going and you might just get off the charges as goodwill, but not in law.

[Kaytee26]

I've been with them for a least 25 years and, when I became a customer, they were 'club books' and credit agreements did not exist. I have deliberately never signed a credit agreement but have never defaulted on paying and have spent a great deal of money with them over the years.

So, does my good customer and long-standing history count for nothing and the fact that they always accept my on-date payment without charge, why suddenly charge?

[jasmin26]

I think the due date means that it has to be actually received by them as cleared funds on that date .the fact that you on paid it on the 30th when it was due on the 30th means that it couldnt possibly be cleared funds. I dont think they are changing their policy as you have already said that your statement says to allow 4 working days for payments via the website .

[squarebear]

You can try contacting the to explain this but they have no legal requirement to refund you any charges, whether you have been with them a week or 25 years.

They may do it as a gesture of goodwill but are under no obligation to do so.

[buildersmate]

"So, does my good customer and long-standing history count for nothing and the fact that they always accept my on-date payment without charge, why suddenly charge?"
.......... we can't anwswer that - you have to make that point to the organisation.
If you are truly an anomaly who has slipped through the system and never signed an agreement, it might result in a removal of charges. Worth a try.

[stoofur]

Can I ask? Why would you deliberately not sign a credit agreement with a company who is giving you credit? I don't understand what that would gain you, unless you were planning to default.

Also you say that you use there website to make payments. I would guess that if you are using there website this means that you agree to the terms and conditions of the company.

http://www.kandco.com...en/privacy-terms.page

"These Terms and Conditions are applicable every time you access our website and/or order goods from our website. Please note that these Terms and Conditions also incorporate the following sections which we advise that you read:"