Grammar & Generation Gaps

[Drusilla]

Is the importance we place on spelling, punctuation and grammar as much a sign of 'the generation gap', as our choices in music?

[andy hughes]

Definitely. The cultural influences of television, computers, and especially texting, have combined with the lack of proper time devoted to the teaching of reading and writing to ensure that grammar, spelling and punctuation are at an all-time low.

Music has also changed insofar as the ways in which people absorb it. Portable media mean that far more people listen to music whilst doing other things, as opposed to the previous generation who would set aside specific time to listen to music in a static stereo or radio. For me, the listening experience demands time and attention - I never have 'background' music, even in the car, I am paying attention, and at home, I like a set undisturbed periood of time to listen to my music.

[sophieb]

I attended my kids' parent's evening on Monday and pointed out that my ten year old had spelt various words wrongly more than once. She is also not too good at punctuation and I found out why! I was told by her teacher that " at this age, we don't put much emphasis on spelling or punctuation as long as the sentence is basically correct!" Is this the case in all schools? She is having incorrect work ticked as correct, so she is not learning when she is wrong. She goes to secondary school in 18 months time and I'm not sure how strict they are with it there but she better learn quick if they are!! Also they do not learn times tables like I used to. They learn up to whatever times 10 but not 11 and 12. She only knows up to 6 times tables and she is primary 6. Oh my god, I've just realised how worried I am about this!! Can anyone tell me what stage their kids are/were at this age?

[WendyS]

I must confess to wincing when I see the standard of spelling, grammar and punctuation in some of the threads I read on this site and shake my head in despair if this represents the standard of English being taught today. You also wouldn't believe the number of spelling and grammar mistakes which appear in the CV's and job applications of university graduates . I guess young people read less these days so rarely see the correct written word and TV seems to have taken over from books as a leisure activity. What shocked me most of all was when I joined a Russian language class and we started to tackle the grammar. Some of the other students didn't properly understand what pronouns and adverbs were and when the teacher started talking about how to decline grammatical cases such as nominative and accusative he first had to give a lesson in English lesson before he could resume his Russian teaching. If students don't understand how their own language is constructed, how on earth can they hope to grapple with the complexities of a foreign one?

[mimififi]

It is my biggest pet hate, the phrase 'generation gap' conjures something that is not someone's fault, such as the change in music, fasion etc. These things are changed by external powers and our 'youth' don't necessariy ask for these changes.

Spelling, punctuation and grammar? Please, I don't see why kids can't learn how to spell and write correctly from reception. I just don't understand why people seem to think that it is ok to blame computers ,and mobile phones for children's poor English. If they can't tell the difference between modern slang, txt and computer talk, and proper spelling, just what are they learning in school?

It is like blaming children's poor arithmetic on the fact that they use calculators from year 6. Nothing to do with generation, just lazy and unnecessary.

[BigMac]

Sophieb - just a quick note on the x-table: I don't think that learning up to x10 and not up to x12 is a problem. The reason we (assuming you're old enough) learnt up to x12 was because of Lsd and, now we've gone decimal, it's no longer necessary.

I don't think anyone will disagree about the need for teachers to correct spellings; I still wince at the memory of my parents sending my corrected homework back to school... with the teacher's corrections amended.

[Drusilla]

mimififi; I was talking about the evolution of language as much as I was focussing on correct usage.
We accept that rock music evolves through different genres,like punk, heavy metal and grunge, but they're all equally valid and share a common root. Shouldn't we accept different styles in English as well and don't those styles of usage reflect the age of the user?
If you use full sentences etc. when text messaging, isn't it akin to writing a letter to a friend using the language of Shakespeare.
Doesn't our style of usage evolve? Spelling was never really important in Shakespeare's day and concern about split infinitives will seem antiquated within a generation.
I was trying to keep the question short and I accept in so doing, I may have added confusion when I was searching for clarity. Sorry!

[mimififi]

Oh sorry, Dru, I did get a little confused, but then again, it is a sticky point with me. I used to be an English teacher in secondary school, UK. The number of times I had kids using txt language in a formal essay because they just didn't know the difference was very irritating, and unnecessary.

The difference with music is that you know the difference between different genres, but some kids out there accept the new way and have no comprehension of the actual way, which makes it difficult when it comes to things like UCAS forms or job applications etc, as has been mentioned by someone else.

I'm not againt the new, but I think I need to make sure that my kids know the other way too. Else, it'd be like teaching that only Britney and Boyzone existed, and never making anyone listen to the beatles or U2. Treacherous, frankly.

Sorry, that I came across the way i did, I get a bit fired up over these things. It all comes from being head over heels in love with the English Language.....:-)

[cherrybomb]

We must all change with the times. I am tempted to use text speak when typing words like thank you in emails, I spend a great deal of time checking my spelling and punctuation, time I could gain back by shortening the basic words. The difference is I was taught the hard way and it would be my choice to make the task easier. I nearly fell of my chair when I read a question on phrases and sayings

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Phrases-and-Sayings/Question163494.html

[juliely]

I have just completed an english course at Adult education classes and my tutor told us that our level of written english is ten times better than the current university tutor group she is teaching at present. She is ashamed of the education system in this country that can turn out youngsters, after 12years in the system, to turn them loose on society. I am 48, had to leave school without any qualifications. I have two teenage children and am appalled at the way they speak, their grammar, spelling etc. I have also done a maths course and the same old story, us older ones can add and multiply much better than the youngsters. I am not anti kids, but I do think the education system has a lot to put right.