ChatterBank0 min ago
failure to disclose a easement
Hi, i bought a field, and suddenly found there is a 12inch watermain running through it, wanted to put big pond on it, but not allowed to dig near it, the last owner said he gave the easement to the estate agent, but wont put anthing in writing as i paid a big price for the small field, i contacted the estate agent, saying did you know about the easement, wrote back , he on holiday but back on tuesday and get back to you, never did just blank, i paid double what it is worth, and now feel like i been robbed, the estate agent knew 10% but kept quiet to get more fees, both solicitors know nothing about the easement , just the seller and estate agent, if i know there was a massive pipe through the land would have walked away, now i am very limited what i can do with the land, any help will be grateful
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You need to speak to the legal person who assisted with your conveyancing. Prior to a contract to purchase and/or a transfer of the land occurring, there is a standard set of questions asked of the seller. The document is often known as the 'Property Information Form' and it deals with boundaries, complaints, disputes between neighbours and formal/informal arrangements over the land.
One of the standard questions is worded something along the lines 'are there any formal or informal arrnagements that someone else has over the land'. This is your 'gotcha' question because the seller should have disclosed this arrangement in this document.
Your comment about giving an easement to an 'estate agent' doesn't make sense - unless this estate agent is also an adjoining land owner. Easements are legal agreements so that one land-owner (or utility provider) can benefit from an entitlement (in your case the free passage of water through your land). The burdened land - the field that you bought - is then subject to certain limitations. It is usual for these agreements to be recorded in the Land Title at the Land Register but not always so. If it was recorded at LR, your solicitor would have found it
Please explain the relationship between the 'estate agent' who was presumably part of the selling process and commissioned by the buyer to sell the field, and the interest that the 'estate agent' has to running water across your field. In other words, where does the water supply go to and who benefits?
One of the standard questions is worded something along the lines 'are there any formal or informal arrnagements that someone else has over the land'. This is your 'gotcha' question because the seller should have disclosed this arrangement in this document.
Your comment about giving an easement to an 'estate agent' doesn't make sense - unless this estate agent is also an adjoining land owner. Easements are legal agreements so that one land-owner (or utility provider) can benefit from an entitlement (in your case the free passage of water through your land). The burdened land - the field that you bought - is then subject to certain limitations. It is usual for these agreements to be recorded in the Land Title at the Land Register but not always so. If it was recorded at LR, your solicitor would have found it
Please explain the relationship between the 'estate agent' who was presumably part of the selling process and commissioned by the buyer to sell the field, and the interest that the 'estate agent' has to running water across your field. In other words, where does the water supply go to and who benefits?
bm
I think the OP meant the seller told him he had notified the estate agent that the easement existed - not that the agent was involved in it.
However, if this is a 12" main it must be a major water company & I'm astonished if it hasn't been put on the title at Land Registry - it certainly should have been.
OP should most certainly take this up with the conveyancing solicitor. If the seller failed to answer the relevant question correctly then he has a claim against him/her. If the solicitor failed to use the normal form so no such question was asked then there is very likely a claim against the solicitor. If OP did his own conveyancing it's more problematic. He would probably have to try to pursue a claim against the estate agent - but that would involve getting some proof he did know about the easement & that he had a duty to declare it.
I think the OP meant the seller told him he had notified the estate agent that the easement existed - not that the agent was involved in it.
However, if this is a 12" main it must be a major water company & I'm astonished if it hasn't been put on the title at Land Registry - it certainly should have been.
OP should most certainly take this up with the conveyancing solicitor. If the seller failed to answer the relevant question correctly then he has a claim against him/her. If the solicitor failed to use the normal form so no such question was asked then there is very likely a claim against the solicitor. If OP did his own conveyancing it's more problematic. He would probably have to try to pursue a claim against the estate agent - but that would involve getting some proof he did know about the easement & that he had a duty to declare it.
first of all thank you to everyone for your help. the estate agent didnt know what i was doing with field. i went to see the last owner, and he said he never sold it for ponds but its ok to plough, i said well up to me what i do with the field, the neighbour said he the biggest conman going, and his 80 year old sister he robbed out of there brothers will and also years ago he begged land and building plots off his parents estate, and family doesnt want to know him. one of the directors who dealt with my field has now gone, rumours was he was up to no good,the estate agent after 2 weeks got back to me today after i emailed him again,he said the seller did bring in a document from the water authority saying they off to put water on the field as a service pipe, as the one renting it many years ago wanted water on he field for his horses, so the letter not the watermain, this has suddenly come to life has this letter, i personally think the estate agent is in on the con with he seller, as when i first approched the estage agent about the boundary disput i got ,yes another problem, when i went to the last owner who never seen me every, it was like i had a appointedment and he was expecting me, he got paperwork out round the corner, only estate agent could have told him, he got huge price as it was put to highest bidder even tho they said i was original the highest, the sellers solicitors refuse to speak to me only through mine, whats that all about ? s for mine well when i told him i found the watermain, he said just forget about it, and just sell the field, i said i dont want anyone going through 5 years of hell like i had, told me to forget i even know about it, i am off to have it put on my deeds, as am very honest person, i got my file back off him, and lots of letters and a search , as for property information form, i couldnt find one, in one letter he did say that with parcels of land u ask alot less questions to the seller side, as different from buying a house, i had in total 4 boundary disputes over 5 years, still got 2 to sort, one thing what got me going , the farmers next door been stealing land in the past and gone to my estate agent who sold me the land, and he been discusing the boundarys behind my back to the enemy, the farmer said he told us middle of the hedge is boundary, estate agent said he said he didnt have a clear plan of the boundarys and couldnt help them, surely estate agent broke data protection act or something, and made the situation worser, the seller wished me good luck with the boundarys, if he wasnt around 80 i would have took law in my own hands the cheeky conman, and told me to get on to my own solicitor, i can prove that the watermain came through the land while he was the owner of it, all my solicitor keeps saying have u had it valued and if gone up sell it, it has gone up, but he missing the point, i have a field, i paid big money 4, comes with less land than in the deeds, 4 boundarys disputes, and a huge watermain which joins the local village to the next town
You've given us lots more additional information here without giving me much to be able to help with (except that if I knew all this I don't think I'd have bought the field).
What your solicitor says about the value of the field is irrelevant; what the legal advisor is employed to do is find out on your behalf that the title of the land is good and what the extent of any restrictions or liabilities are. Armed with this information it is then up to you to decide whether the land is worth the money being asked.
Go back to your solicitor and ask the specific questions I asked you - where is the Property Information Form? Either there is one or there isn't. If there isn't ask why not.
If the water is only for a field supply it will not be a 12 inch pipe, more likely a 25mm plastic pipe. 12 inch pipes are seriously big mains supplies to large communities.
You are still better off pursuing your solicitor over this - what the estate agent told you and whether you think people are con-men or not are irrelevant. You need to get to the bottom of why your solicitor failed to get the restrictions on the land identified for you.
Let's stick the facts, please, if you want further help on this.
What your solicitor says about the value of the field is irrelevant; what the legal advisor is employed to do is find out on your behalf that the title of the land is good and what the extent of any restrictions or liabilities are. Armed with this information it is then up to you to decide whether the land is worth the money being asked.
Go back to your solicitor and ask the specific questions I asked you - where is the Property Information Form? Either there is one or there isn't. If there isn't ask why not.
If the water is only for a field supply it will not be a 12 inch pipe, more likely a 25mm plastic pipe. 12 inch pipes are seriously big mains supplies to large communities.
You are still better off pursuing your solicitor over this - what the estate agent told you and whether you think people are con-men or not are irrelevant. You need to get to the bottom of why your solicitor failed to get the restrictions on the land identified for you.
Let's stick the facts, please, if you want further help on this.
If the seller withheld material information of which he was aware and which if you had known would have affected your decision to purchase the land at the price agreed, you will probably have grounds to take action.
I would start with your solicitor explain the position regarding the purchase of the land and the information you believe may have been withheld and ask them to start enquiries, your solicitor should then make enquiries of the sellers solicitor and through them the estate agent and seller. Beware of slander, which is a defamatory statement generally actionable on proof that its publication has caused financial damage as well as loss of reputation.
I would start with your solicitor explain the position regarding the purchase of the land and the information you believe may have been withheld and ask them to start enquiries, your solicitor should then make enquiries of the sellers solicitor and through them the estate agent and seller. Beware of slander, which is a defamatory statement generally actionable on proof that its publication has caused financial damage as well as loss of reputation.
If it's not residential land then it would be far more usual for enquiries (and searches) to be dealt with on a commercial level (CPSE) - the Seller's Property Information Form is for residential property.
http://uk.practicallaw.com/8-503-3341#a60052
It deals with issues such as boundaries and adverse rights.
Were searches done? Water search should have shown the location of any watermains. Were the deeds available with any copy of the easement?
Were you provided with a copy of the title plan before the purchase to be able to judge whether the land you were buying was the same as the physical extent you believed you were buying? Did you inspect the land to check?
What were the terms of your instructions to the solicitor? A full proper job or just a quick buy? It has been known for people to want a quick fix for cheaper fees or a faster sale and are happy (at the time) to forego a lot of the due diligence which would normally be done beforehand.
If this was anything like the case though, if I'd acted for you when practicing I'd have seriously "disclaimered" you though to get clear written proof I'd advised you to have full enquries/searches (as land can throw up all kinds of horrors as this post indicates) but you had declined.
I'm in no way saying this could be the case with you but I've heard a fair few people say it's just a bit of land so why bother in the past? Accounts like this kind of prove my point.
The seller's solicitors will not be able to speak to you, you are not their client, the seller was, hence them saying they can only speak to you via your own legal representative as they cannot advise two parties in conflict of interest.
If the solicitor has just not done a proper job then this needs to be raised. Write to them expressing your concerns and invoking their official complaints procedure (there should be details of this in your initial letter confirming your instructions to them) or they should provide you with details of the complaints partner.
This could at least give you a better idea of where the issue lies (you, your solicitor, seller's solicitor, seller...) and any further action to take.
If you are not satisfied with your solicitor's response and there are reasonable grounds to suggest they are at fault then you can go to the Legal Ombudsman.
http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/
Keep written correspondence as clear and ordered as possible - is there a local CAB or good commercial property/professional negligence lawyer who could help you look over everything in general and maybe explain through some of the issues, potential remedies and possible further action and, if appropriate, get something written down to help you progress matters?
http://uk.practicallaw.com/8-503-3341#a60052
It deals with issues such as boundaries and adverse rights.
Were searches done? Water search should have shown the location of any watermains. Were the deeds available with any copy of the easement?
Were you provided with a copy of the title plan before the purchase to be able to judge whether the land you were buying was the same as the physical extent you believed you were buying? Did you inspect the land to check?
What were the terms of your instructions to the solicitor? A full proper job or just a quick buy? It has been known for people to want a quick fix for cheaper fees or a faster sale and are happy (at the time) to forego a lot of the due diligence which would normally be done beforehand.
If this was anything like the case though, if I'd acted for you when practicing I'd have seriously "disclaimered" you though to get clear written proof I'd advised you to have full enquries/searches (as land can throw up all kinds of horrors as this post indicates) but you had declined.
I'm in no way saying this could be the case with you but I've heard a fair few people say it's just a bit of land so why bother in the past? Accounts like this kind of prove my point.
The seller's solicitors will not be able to speak to you, you are not their client, the seller was, hence them saying they can only speak to you via your own legal representative as they cannot advise two parties in conflict of interest.
If the solicitor has just not done a proper job then this needs to be raised. Write to them expressing your concerns and invoking their official complaints procedure (there should be details of this in your initial letter confirming your instructions to them) or they should provide you with details of the complaints partner.
This could at least give you a better idea of where the issue lies (you, your solicitor, seller's solicitor, seller...) and any further action to take.
If you are not satisfied with your solicitor's response and there are reasonable grounds to suggest they are at fault then you can go to the Legal Ombudsman.
http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/
Keep written correspondence as clear and ordered as possible - is there a local CAB or good commercial property/professional negligence lawyer who could help you look over everything in general and maybe explain through some of the issues, potential remedies and possible further action and, if appropriate, get something written down to help you progress matters?
we are in the process of buying a house with some land. our solicitor advised a mining report and a report from the local utilities showing underground pipes -as far as I know this is common practice. However much of a con man (allegedly) the vendor was, its down to the solicitor to do searches -the Vendor could not have 'hidden' the fact there was a water pipe -it will be in recorded somewhere - have you asked for a report from your water authority? Anyway - its YOUR solicitor that is responsible.
Thank you for all your great advice. was nothing put on the deads about the easement, the water pipe was put in in the early 1990's so not very long ago, i did have searches done, which the solicitor recomended. The solicitor said he was off to do a sellers questionaire, no one told us to do a water search. the solicitor just does residential and commercial conveyencing and is a partner, the buying process was very long and expensive, i have spoke personally to the seller about the boundary disputes and easements, but he refuses to put anything in writing, just said go and see your soliciotor, the sellers solicitors didnt know about any easement, i did have searchs but not every single search, i have took buildermate from here advice and asked my solicitor about the property information form, and/or sellers questionaire, he did send a sellers questionare , and sellers side was very long time, my solicitor forgot to chase it up, so seller and sellers solicitor kept quiet, so solicitor never found out about any easements or boundarys as he never got sellers questionaire back, so i got to try and sort the boundarys out myself, i am now asking the solicitor to compensate me, and if he doesnt i have no choice but to su him, everyone been so helpful, i will have to ask questions on my boundary disputes next, thanks everyone
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