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Employment Contract
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My late husbands mother in law passed away 21 days before my retirement.
Under my employment contract I was entitled to a basic 5 days paid leave and further days at the discretion of the manager when certain relatives pass away.
Mother in law was on the list.
I took my 5 days to make arrangements etc although the funeral could not be arranged till after my retirement date.
I have now had a letter from the company requesting me to repay 5 days salary and when I queried it they said as my husband had passed away she was no longer a relative.
I did ask what was she was she was the grandmother of my 2 children and the only response I got was for company purposes she was no longer a relative.
I do not think there is enough involved to get solicitors involved but I am wandering if anybody knows if I am obliged to pay.
Jayne
Under my employment contract I was entitled to a basic 5 days paid leave and further days at the discretion of the manager when certain relatives pass away.
Mother in law was on the list.
I took my 5 days to make arrangements etc although the funeral could not be arranged till after my retirement date.
I have now had a letter from the company requesting me to repay 5 days salary and when I queried it they said as my husband had passed away she was no longer a relative.
I did ask what was she was she was the grandmother of my 2 children and the only response I got was for company purposes she was no longer a relative.
I do not think there is enough involved to get solicitors involved but I am wandering if anybody knows if I am obliged to pay.
Jayne
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When this point was discussed a few years ago the company said it would give 5 days leave to everybody when a family death happens and more if there were special circumstances.
I did phone my immediate manager when my mother in law passed away and he told me to take the time off.
I know a few years ago a lady was granted additional days as the relative was in Australia.
I could understand it in some ways the company's attitude if we had divorced but in practice my relationship with my mother in law did not change when my husband passed away and several other members of staff had seen me with her and my chilldren and grandchildren.
Jayne
I did phone my immediate manager when my mother in law passed away and he told me to take the time off.
I know a few years ago a lady was granted additional days as the relative was in Australia.
I could understand it in some ways the company's attitude if we had divorced but in practice my relationship with my mother in law did not change when my husband passed away and several other members of staff had seen me with her and my chilldren and grandchildren.
Jayne
It is most unfortunate that this should happen to you.
5 days for a non-immediate relative is quite generous, but if that is what the guidance says, then that's what it said. When I 've been on the other end of this (deciding whether to grant compassionate days outside guideleines), we try to sensitively find out the closeness of the relative involved and the amount of work being done by the family member (making all the arrangements or just a bit-player). On this one, I'd have asked whether there was anyone on the husband's side of the family.
That is irrelevant now - as the days have been taken.
For 5 days pay and the possibility of associated negative publicity with other employees, I think it unlikely that the company would make a formal legal issue of it.
I would just go back and say that you took the time in good faith, the manager was aware of what you were doing and given the circumstances you feel it is a little unreasonable for the company to seek a claw-back now.
There is no definitive legal answer to your question 'am I obliged to pay' - as the answer is 'only if a court upholds the company's claim'.
5 days for a non-immediate relative is quite generous, but if that is what the guidance says, then that's what it said. When I 've been on the other end of this (deciding whether to grant compassionate days outside guideleines), we try to sensitively find out the closeness of the relative involved and the amount of work being done by the family member (making all the arrangements or just a bit-player). On this one, I'd have asked whether there was anyone on the husband's side of the family.
That is irrelevant now - as the days have been taken.
For 5 days pay and the possibility of associated negative publicity with other employees, I think it unlikely that the company would make a formal legal issue of it.
I would just go back and say that you took the time in good faith, the manager was aware of what you were doing and given the circumstances you feel it is a little unreasonable for the company to seek a claw-back now.
There is no definitive legal answer to your question 'am I obliged to pay' - as the answer is 'only if a court upholds the company's claim'.
Hi Buildersmate
She did have distant relatives on my husband's side of the family but none of them even came to the funeral.
They had been to see her a few years before to ask my mother in law to include them in her will.
At the time she told them the money was being willed to me and my children as the money would have gone to her son under normal circumstances and I would have benefited.
Surprisingly I was working on the various arrangements for the full 5 days.
As it happens my son was given 3 days leave by his employers and he was making arrangements in relation to the funeral and estate during that time as well.
Jayne
She did have distant relatives on my husband's side of the family but none of them even came to the funeral.
They had been to see her a few years before to ask my mother in law to include them in her will.
At the time she told them the money was being willed to me and my children as the money would have gone to her son under normal circumstances and I would have benefited.
Surprisingly I was working on the various arrangements for the full 5 days.
As it happens my son was given 3 days leave by his employers and he was making arrangements in relation to the funeral and estate during that time as well.
Jayne
I am sorry about your mother in law and I know the problems it can cause. My father passed away in December and it has taken up a huge amount of time.
As you say she is family as she is the grandmother of your children and you are obviously related to your children.
I would not pay the money back at this stage and just state this time was taken in accordance with your contract.
When I was at work I was an office manager in charge of 60 people.
I had an employee who was widowed when he was about 30 and got married again about 3 years later.
He had a daughter from his first marriage and a son from his second marriage.
As his late wife's parents, his parents and his subsequent wife's parents were alive this left him with 2 mother's and 2 father's in law and his own mother and father.
Sadly they all passed away within 3 years of each other.
I gave him 3 days off in accordance with the rules of the company on each death.
I did have a phone call from Head Office about this. When I explained the circumstances to them everything was OK.
Martin
As you say she is family as she is the grandmother of your children and you are obviously related to your children.
I would not pay the money back at this stage and just state this time was taken in accordance with your contract.
When I was at work I was an office manager in charge of 60 people.
I had an employee who was widowed when he was about 30 and got married again about 3 years later.
He had a daughter from his first marriage and a son from his second marriage.
As his late wife's parents, his parents and his subsequent wife's parents were alive this left him with 2 mother's and 2 father's in law and his own mother and father.
Sadly they all passed away within 3 years of each other.
I gave him 3 days off in accordance with the rules of the company on each death.
I did have a phone call from Head Office about this. When I explained the circumstances to them everything was OK.
Martin
As has been said already, if your manager agreed to you taking the time off at the time then it is unreasonable for them to change their mind now. Write to them stating that you consider your MIL to be a close relative, that the leave was approved at the time, and that you will therefore not be refunding the money. Leave it at that and I bet it goes away. As has also been said, you are only obliged to pay once a court tells you to, and it would be very petty for them to take you to court over such a small sum.
Hi Hammer
The 5 days leave for the death of a relative was written into my employment contract and it did state ''mother in law'' counted as a relative so I don't think my manager had any option.
What my employers are trying to say is as soon as my husband passed away she was no longer a relative.
I know she is not a blood relative to me but she is my children's grandmother and their children's great grandmother.
Are they also saying I am no longer related to my children or grandchildren as my husband passed away?.
I do remember a manager saying to an employee who was in his final month of employment and he had to go into hospital his hospital treatment should wait until after retirement as it was not urgent but the employee was entitled to the sick leave in accodance with the terms of his contract.
Jayne
The 5 days leave for the death of a relative was written into my employment contract and it did state ''mother in law'' counted as a relative so I don't think my manager had any option.
What my employers are trying to say is as soon as my husband passed away she was no longer a relative.
I know she is not a blood relative to me but she is my children's grandmother and their children's great grandmother.
Are they also saying I am no longer related to my children or grandchildren as my husband passed away?.
I do remember a manager saying to an employee who was in his final month of employment and he had to go into hospital his hospital treatment should wait until after retirement as it was not urgent but the employee was entitled to the sick leave in accodance with the terms of his contract.
Jayne
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