Will You Be Shopping At Boots This...
News5 mins ago
Is the Utopian dream of European togetheness fastly crumbling?
13 Answers
Answers
1 to 13 of 13
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by anotheoldgit. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
To be serious - I don't think Europe has really stood for 'togetherness' in that sense, so I don't think the utopian dream was every realised.
The real dream of Europe as envisaged by Ted Heath was as a backstop to prevent world war again. I've been reading about him recently and it appears that he and a number of politicians of his age group were badly scarred by why they witnessed in WWII and wanted Europe to be tightly integrated to prevent that (I suppose the idea being that you cannot go to war when you have your hands in your enemy's pockets).
The real dream of Europe as envisaged by Ted Heath was as a backstop to prevent world war again. I've been reading about him recently and it appears that he and a number of politicians of his age group were badly scarred by why they witnessed in WWII and wanted Europe to be tightly integrated to prevent that (I suppose the idea being that you cannot go to war when you have your hands in your enemy's pockets).
now what we are seeing is the old enmity back again, and it could be that Sarkhozy will be out next election and that may be the very thing that tips the balance of the current hand holding between France and Germany which has been going on for some time. If a more left wing candidate comes in, and there are any number who could win the Presidency, then i can see a fracture within the European Union. The French people alongside many others are fed up with the austerity measures being imposed, and in France's case that could lead to clamping down more on immigration, shutting borders as they are trying to do, so where does that leave other member states, if one of the big players starts to pull back from the EU, or at least some of it's rules, regulations.
Most of the immigrants are coming through Italy especially those from Greece. Italy does not want them, now France and Germany are closing their borders. We don't want them but arriving at EU checkpoints at Heathrow, etc they will be waved through.
The Olympics will be a golden opportunity for any to come here, take our jobs, claim benefits and we will just sit back in despair knowing we will never kick them out.
The Olympics will be a golden opportunity for any to come here, take our jobs, claim benefits and we will just sit back in despair knowing we will never kick them out.
The amusing thing is that the UK was castigated, branded anti-European, denounced as insular and self-protective when it refused to sign up to the Schengen Agreement. One of the main reasons the UK opted out was it envisaged the very problem now being complained of by France and Germany – free movement of legitimate citizens also facilitates free movement of people not entitled to be in the EU. Many Europhiles branded the UK as xenophobic and racist because of its stance.
Oh how times change! Now some of the very people who castigated the UK now seek to adopt a similar stance themselves because their idiocy has led to inconvenience.
The Schengen agreement is second only to the Single Currency as the proudest achievements of the supporters of the European project. Both have caused enormous misery and difficulties for millions of people across the continent and both are cracking at the seams. But still the Eurocrats refuse to let their ridiculous schemes to be brought down and the misery continues. The Euro should be dismantled forthwith and the SChengen Agreement torn up. Only then will Europe prosper, individual nations regain control over their affairs, and their people be put out of their misery.
It will eventually happen but the sheer bloody mindedness of the politicians, their intransigence, their vanity and their refusal to accept reality will mean that far more damage is done, far more misery piled on, particularly to citizens of the Euro peripheral nations, before the will of the people prevails.
Oh how times change! Now some of the very people who castigated the UK now seek to adopt a similar stance themselves because their idiocy has led to inconvenience.
The Schengen agreement is second only to the Single Currency as the proudest achievements of the supporters of the European project. Both have caused enormous misery and difficulties for millions of people across the continent and both are cracking at the seams. But still the Eurocrats refuse to let their ridiculous schemes to be brought down and the misery continues. The Euro should be dismantled forthwith and the SChengen Agreement torn up. Only then will Europe prosper, individual nations regain control over their affairs, and their people be put out of their misery.
It will eventually happen but the sheer bloody mindedness of the politicians, their intransigence, their vanity and their refusal to accept reality will mean that far more damage is done, far more misery piled on, particularly to citizens of the Euro peripheral nations, before the will of the people prevails.
Though NJ speaks a lot of sense, he misses the opportunity for expressing a desire for immediate future statesmanship - something that needs to rise from the Phoenix of confusion and disillusionment that currently abounds within Europe.
This is the moment for a true statesman/woman/statesmen/women to step forward and define the next stage to take us forward, a collective trading movement, free movement of people between well-enforced borders (yes I think Schengen has mileage if the external borders are appropriately policed), a Europe that truly endorses freedom of trade and competition,but a Europe that recognises the individuality of its nation in terms of culture, law, religion and social "idiosyncrasies," the right of the member nations to decide what is truly collective and should be centralised but recognising the individual nation.
That will be the mark of our true statesmen, those folk that can lead us to at least 90% of the way...yes, they will fail on much, but if they can take us to that more elevated state to take on world regional trade blocs and all that they entail, then we will be better off and they will have done their job.
I must say as an aside, how despondent I get to the inability of the Brits to accept and rise to such changes and challenges, our fundamental failing at local, regional and national politics and communual change, our inability to embrace better practice of others, our failure to move forward and profit, financially or socially, our inward looking "me-me-me" attitude and, hence, Nimbyism.
Less of the sermonising, it's almost time for R4 and bed.
This is the moment for a true statesman/woman/statesmen/women to step forward and define the next stage to take us forward, a collective trading movement, free movement of people between well-enforced borders (yes I think Schengen has mileage if the external borders are appropriately policed), a Europe that truly endorses freedom of trade and competition,but a Europe that recognises the individuality of its nation in terms of culture, law, religion and social "idiosyncrasies," the right of the member nations to decide what is truly collective and should be centralised but recognising the individual nation.
That will be the mark of our true statesmen, those folk that can lead us to at least 90% of the way...yes, they will fail on much, but if they can take us to that more elevated state to take on world regional trade blocs and all that they entail, then we will be better off and they will have done their job.
I must say as an aside, how despondent I get to the inability of the Brits to accept and rise to such changes and challenges, our fundamental failing at local, regional and national politics and communual change, our inability to embrace better practice of others, our failure to move forward and profit, financially or socially, our inward looking "me-me-me" attitude and, hence, Nimbyism.
Less of the sermonising, it's almost time for R4 and bed.
Indeed Gromit. For all their faults we have at least two things for which we should be eternally grateful to the last Labour administration: the refusal to sign Schengen and (most of all) the refusal to participate in the Single Currency.
It does amaze me, looking back, that both these catastrophes were avoided, particularly bearing in mind that most members of the government at that time were pro-European. But we must be thankful.
It does amaze me, looking back, that both these catastrophes were avoided, particularly bearing in mind that most members of the government at that time were pro-European. But we must be thankful.
Yes judge and the next thing we need to do is to find a single currency advocate to admit they where wrong. All those aloof "experts" who looked down their noses at us "xenaphobic little Englanders". Well have they got an ounce of bottle between them, anyone want to come clean? In fact I feel a question comming on!
1 to 13 of 13
Related Questions
Sorry, we can't find any related questions. Try using the search bar at the top of the page to search for some keywords, or choose a topic and submit your own question.