daily mail xword 23.11.05

[ashfordshe]

3d. What Warne did is insolent (4) B?L?

12a. Constant unit it diverts in numbers on roads (4) C?N?

[Quizmonkey]

Second one is Cone (C + one)

[dr pop]

BOLD(sounds like bowled as in Shane Warne)

[Quizmonkey]

I think you're probably right - but a totally unsound clue (there's no 'sounds like' indication).

[biley]

Well its not just that is it? If I am bold that does not make me insolent, if I am insolent that does not make me bold.

insolent, adjective disrespectful and rude; impudent.

bold, adjective daring; actively courageous; forward or impudent; presumptuous; executed vigorously; striking, noticeable, well marked; steep or abrupt; (of eg currants) full-flavoured, mature, plump; (of type) bold-faced.

And I doubt if there is a thesaurus in the land that would give the two words as synonyms of each other. Truly awful clue if bold is the answer the compiler is looking for.

[Quizmonkey]

To be fair Biley, both bold and insolent are defined as impudent, so that's probably enough justification for the def.

[biley]

Well its just as well I do not do the Mail's crosswords then if this an acceptable clue! I think most cruciverbalists would shrink back in horror at the thought that you had to find a linking word first before you could find the solution to the clue - ie insolent to impudent to bold.

I am not a crossword compiler by any means and this will be a poor example but it is in the same manner as the Mail clue - 'Was the lady that Chichester sailed with homosexual?' To get your answer you would have to go from homosexual to gay (the linking word) to lively. There is no need to do it that way so why do so? If my clue had read 'Was the lady that Chichester sailed with gay?' then surely that is far more reasonable as a clue.

If the compiler had used the word impudent (or another meaning bold) then although the clue is still far from perfect without the hint that the word you are looking for sounds like what Warne did, it would at least be better.

Perhaps I am getting old but I find that quite a few clues these days violate the 'spirit' of a genuinely clever cryptic clue. This Mail clue is anything but that, in my opinion.

[Quizmonkey]

Don't get me wrong Biley - I agree with you on this clue. I'm all for Ximenean standards and even occasionally get hot under the collar at redundant words in clues that are just there to 'improve the surface reading'. I do compile and though I don't rate myself with the great setters, I do strive to make all my clues fair, logical and, hopefully, entertaining.

Anyway, another fine reason not to buy the Daily Mail!

[BigMac]

How many reasons do we need, Quizmonkey? From the top of my head, in no particular (maybe chronological?) order: Zinoviev; appeasement; Moseley (?sp?); misogyny; and Richard Littlejohn. Will that do?

[mike b]

To be fair, full clue was "What Warne did reportedly is 31 [insolent]. On the other hand, there was an answer recently which depended on pronouncing 'due' and 'Jew' identically! (nb; I don't buy the rag - I just nick the crossword from the pub copy occasionally, and I actually won once!)

[masonbm]

<XMP>I don't suppose the answer could be</XMP><XMP>BALL ("BAWL"=insolent)-could it?</XMP>