Magpies - vermin?

[sidkid]

In the latest Sunday Times there's an article about a lady bee-keeper who shoots magpies. She says they are vermin. Is this woman allowed to kill these beautiful creatures?

[chrisrob]

Hate magpies but wouldn't kill them.
This spring they decimated a blackbird nest and we found a number of dead fedglings. They drove out all the other small birds that come to our garden and killed our robin. 14 at a time, they killed 50 stag beetles in our garden over the summer. Then they "chuckle" in that infuriating way!
It's all very well to say let nature take care of itself but they do seem to be rather dominant. - Bit like man?

[LoftyLottie]

Eventually though Chris, it all sorts itself out in the animal kingdom. It would manage perfectly well without our intervention. We meddle too much without understanding what we are doing.

Quite honestly no natural animal noises annoy me. I really don't notice them. It's man made noises that I find more infuriating.

Hating a bird because it has taken a cuter looking or bird that we think is pretty and that we love to see in our gardens is ridiculous. Killing it is deplorable. There is always an element of sadness when a nest is decimated or we find dead fledglings. My swallows nest was decimated this year by another male swallow. All the fledgelings were thrown to the ground. Very sad and I was upset - but I don't now thing that swallows are 'vile'.

[LoftyLottie]

Chrisrob, only that first para was aimed at you.

[carrust]

Magpies will tend to predate a full nest of eggs or fledglings, unlike other birds of prey that take individual birds. Thus ruining that particular birds breeding success for that year.
BTW, the RSPB cull foxes, corvids & some predatory gulls on their reserves.

[LoftyLottie]

Yes I know Carrust (I help out on a bird reserve!).

[LoftyLottie]

I should add that the reserve I work on specialises in a certain bird of prey that man has almost wiped out. The reserve is obviously commited to this breed now surviving and multiplying and to do so they need to control predators.

Without man's intervention these lovely birds would not have declined in this country and these control measures would not have been required.

I don't believe the RSPB thinks any bird is 'vile' though. I know that the magpies are culled where I work, but not with pleasure and not because they take the 'pretty garden birds'

[carrust]

Lofty. Which bird of prey? Hen harrier? Goshawk?

[carrust]

Lofty. You should also be culling the gamekeepers!

[LoftyLottie]

Marsh Harriers.

I would quite happily some of our gamekeepers around me. They quite happily shoot anything that moves. Some are OK though!

[LoftyLottie]

Whoops 'I would quite happily shoot'

[burnhal]

This subject always raises emotions. Personally I believe that the presence of predators indicate a healthy population of 'prey' species. ie the magpies wouldn't be there unless there was enough food.
The reserve I volunteer on uses Larsen traps for corvids. I dont particularly like this but it does help the breeding lapwings.For those interested the wildlife and countryside act DOES allow the killing of certain species for various reasons and Natural England issues a general licence annually listing the species allowed to be killed in that year. Link here for the licence 'to protect wild birds' http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/conservation/ wildlife-management-licensing/docs/WML%20Gen-L 08.pdf . We are all covered by this licence if we are landowners or occupiers. ie only on our own bit of land. However you are more likely to fall foul of the firearms legislation - are you within 50ft of the centre of a public highway, can you guarantee any pellets will not leave the bundary of your property?

[terambulan]

Magpies are excellent talkers if caught young enuf to train. They make good watch-dogs when hand-reared as cackle at visitors and will dive-bomb ppl till they're fed. They will dive-bomb uninvited cats in your garden once they know your territory.

Everyone should have one.....great burglar proofers! And, the feathers are good for quills/jewellery/dusters/hair-thingys. Would make a smart Hiawatha head-dress ;o)

[LoftyLottie]

Actually I do know of someone who had a tame magpie for a pet and lived happily with the cats and dogs in the family too. The are really intelligent birds.

[smudge]

I think magpies are very striking birds & I love to see them (now & again) feeding in our garden, along with all the other birds. Yes, they may be greedy & disrupt other birds lives, etc., but that's nature for you.

Yes, I know they're sometimes classed as vermin, as are squirrels, but they are all welcome here - even though we often find a few bulbs dug up from the latter!

P.S. I am still a little wary when I see a lone magpie, but then it's only an old wives tale - hopefully!

[fredpuli47]

The magpie is just another predator but, unlike the domestic cat, is one which is found naturally in our gardens and fields.If you want to save birds, shoot cats ! [LOL] But seriously, the number of magpies depends on the number of prey species.The magpie can never wipe out the prey because no prey means no magpies, and the magpies would die out before the prey did, if the magpies didn't move on before there was any risk of that happening.
Cats, on the other hand, are not dependent on the supply of birds.They can kill as many as they like, safe in the fact that even wiping out the birds would not affect the cats since we'll feed the cats regardless.
We should be cheered by the presence of many magpies: it proves that we have very many birds.It is peculiarly simple thinking to worry that if magpies kill the birds in our own garden those birds should be protected.We should acknowledge that the birds are not 'our' birds but part of the avifauna of the whole region.

[smudge]

Very nicely put fred!

(Although I don't think my little cat would take too kindly to a pellet gun going off)! ;o}

[galt]

oh how i want a gun - about a dozen by me and they are pecking the seal on the conservatory (silver) and the garden chairs; and i haven't mentioned the crap all up the windows

[Orroman]

Magpies, like all other species, are protected under the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 and the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985. This makes it illegal to intentionally or, in Scotland, recklessly take, injure or kill a magpie, or to take, damage or destroy an active nest or its contents. In Northern Ireland, it is illegal to disturb birds at an active nest.

However, the law recognises that in some circumstances control may be necessary. Killing can only be done if specific conditions are met, and only where non-lethal methods of control are ineffective or impractical.

The UK Governments issue annually general licences (for which it is not necessary to apply individually) under the Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Wildlife Order, some of which allow magpies to be killed or taken by 'authorised persons', using permitted methods, for the purposes of:

preventing serious damage to agricultural crops or livestock
preserving public health 
conserving wild birds
preserving air safety.

An 'authorised person' is a landowner or occupier, or someone acting with the landowner's or occupier's permission.

Since general licences are reviewed annually and can be withdrawn or altered at any time, it is recommended that anyone wanting to exercise the licence should first check details on the relevant government department website or contact them for up to date legal advice and the exact terms of the licence.

(http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/na
me/m/magpie/legal_status.aspx)

[Orroman]

Grey squirrels, however, may be humanely killed on sight. They are vermin and are not in their natural habitat as they are a North American species alien to Europe. I understand they taste like rabbit and are good in a stew.