Labour Scraps Doctors' Apprenticeships
News1 min ago
Druks in Hospital
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I took my neighbour to A & E last night as she fell over by mistake.
She had not been drinking.
I was extremely annoyed to find that about a dozen of the people there were drunk and 2 nurses tried to get us as we were sober.
The nurses were obviously fed up with dealing with the drunks.
As these people are a waste of resources should they be charged say £500 for their treatment.
If they have got the money to get drunk they can pay a £500 charge.
Sarah
She had not been drinking.
I was extremely annoyed to find that about a dozen of the people there were drunk and 2 nurses tried to get us as we were sober.
The nurses were obviously fed up with dealing with the drunks.
As these people are a waste of resources should they be charged say £500 for their treatment.
If they have got the money to get drunk they can pay a £500 charge.
Sarah
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venator, that is sad, that she feels undervalued. I wonder though at those who take relatively early retirement in the public sector, how they perceive their private sector equivalent having to work on. My o/h worked in the public sector and would have taken early retirement, on a very good pension and a large lump sum, which many in the private sector cannot do. Unless we are talking of some high flying bankers with pay, bonus, pensions that are in the stratosphere.
I know any number of nurses, who once qualified in the NHS, worked for a short time in it, then moved to the private sector, where the pay and conditions were considerably better.
I know any number of nurses, who once qualified in the NHS, worked for a short time in it, then moved to the private sector, where the pay and conditions were considerably better.
slaney
\\\\\\not sure if I've seen any posts from you praising the NHS,\\\\
No, I didn't think that you would have.
Tell me, if i have missed the point.......particularly the two links that you have given to me.
Value for money and excellent healthcare may not be the same thing.
Take a cruise...you go on a 3 * cruise and it is value forthe money that you have paid.
Go on a 5*cruise and that may well be value for money, but the differences of luxury is quite different.
Expectations come into play........in the UK the expectations of the British Public are quite different from the expectations of the US public who by and large demand a high standard of health Care and hostelry...........and of course this puts up the costs for the same treatment.
Look in Body and Soul and it is evident from some of the problems that expensive investigations e.g MRI scans are indicated, but the GP knows that the hospital cannot provide that servive and the patient remains undiagnosed.
The US population would not accept this standard of care and hence the cost to provide investigatory procedures mounts, making the US less cost effective, but for the patient.....satisfactory.
\\\\\\not sure if I've seen any posts from you praising the NHS,\\\\
No, I didn't think that you would have.
Tell me, if i have missed the point.......particularly the two links that you have given to me.
Value for money and excellent healthcare may not be the same thing.
Take a cruise...you go on a 3 * cruise and it is value forthe money that you have paid.
Go on a 5*cruise and that may well be value for money, but the differences of luxury is quite different.
Expectations come into play........in the UK the expectations of the British Public are quite different from the expectations of the US public who by and large demand a high standard of health Care and hostelry...........and of course this puts up the costs for the same treatment.
Look in Body and Soul and it is evident from some of the problems that expensive investigations e.g MRI scans are indicated, but the GP knows that the hospital cannot provide that servive and the patient remains undiagnosed.
The US population would not accept this standard of care and hence the cost to provide investigatory procedures mounts, making the US less cost effective, but for the patient.....satisfactory.
em10 - She doesn't feel undervalued - she's had a trip to Buckingham Palace, and is respected by her colleagues, many of whom I know.
It's not money - the way the system is being run is forcing staff at the sharp end, like A&E and Delivery Units, to carry a higher workload with less resources.
Delivery is an area where a midwife needs to be able to spend time with the parents, to ensure the best experience at one of the most stressful times in their lives. Running several patients, and having to zoom off into theatre at the same time degrades the care she wants to give.
I'm sure her experience is shared by staff at the sharp end all over the NHS.
Sure thing sqad, consultants GPs and administrators have it cushy, but please lay off the workers on the factory floor.
It's not money - the way the system is being run is forcing staff at the sharp end, like A&E and Delivery Units, to carry a higher workload with less resources.
Delivery is an area where a midwife needs to be able to spend time with the parents, to ensure the best experience at one of the most stressful times in their lives. Running several patients, and having to zoom off into theatre at the same time degrades the care she wants to give.
I'm sure her experience is shared by staff at the sharp end all over the NHS.
Sure thing sqad, consultants GPs and administrators have it cushy, but please lay off the workers on the factory floor.
Sqad - I have been on this site for over 5 years now and have not seen any posts from you praising the NHS. There could be some I have missed of course, but the overall impression is one of negativity. Were you being sarcastic?
I cannot understand your difficulty with the paper as it clearly shows that the NHS offers not just cost-effective care but also quality of care.
I spoke to a doctor friend recently back from working in the US. Every time she treated a patient with an antibiotic , or tried to order an investigation she had to run the gauntlet of the insurance companies who were very prescriptive in allowing her to do tests. I think your view of the US health system is somewhat rose-tinted.
Here is a link to the RSM paper - scroll down to Table 5 - it shows effectiveness in reducing mortality..
http://
As I said before some hard evidence for your views would strengthen them.
Venator - I do appreciate the fact that your wife works hard, and is under pressure, but so are consultants GPs and administrators who in no way have it cushy.
I cannot understand your difficulty with the paper as it clearly shows that the NHS offers not just cost-effective care but also quality of care.
I spoke to a doctor friend recently back from working in the US. Every time she treated a patient with an antibiotic , or tried to order an investigation she had to run the gauntlet of the insurance companies who were very prescriptive in allowing her to do tests. I think your view of the US health system is somewhat rose-tinted.
Here is a link to the RSM paper - scroll down to Table 5 - it shows effectiveness in reducing mortality..
http://
As I said before some hard evidence for your views would strengthen them.
Venator - I do appreciate the fact that your wife works hard, and is under pressure, but so are consultants GPs and administrators who in no way have it cushy.
No, administrators do not have it 'cushty'! Having recently been through an admin review, I had to demonstrate why I could not take on any extra work (fortunately this was easy as I'm good at my job), and the result was the powers that be finally acknowledging that I need help. Some adminstrators may be slouches, same as some GPs, some consultants etc... Most of us do the job of two people. I manage two specialised services, the one that I was actually hire to do, and another that got tacked on to by virtue of the fact that one of my consultants works for an adolescent service that got completely overlooked in the admin review so the consultant who actually oversees that particular service has a secretary who is a band lower than myself and can't actually be the admin lead! I very rarely leave work on time, and the level of responsibility I have is actually a bit ridiculous given then I'm not clinical, and not specialised (although I would argue that these days, I am a specialist in my own little way). Admin is often vastly overlooked, and those of us that do an excellent job (there's actually a fair few of us) get lumped in with the lazy arses and inadequate managers (there's also several of those) and then people think we're a waste of money.
Getting back to the original post. I would actually be in favour of time wasters paying for trips to A&E but there is no admin system to support it that would actually be cost effective. It would cost more to put the admin in place and chase payments than the revenue it would bring in.
Getting back to the original post. I would actually be in favour of time wasters paying for trips to A&E but there is no admin system to support it that would actually be cost effective. It would cost more to put the admin in place and chase payments than the revenue it would bring in.
China doll - of course there are individuals who do a worthwhile job, and do it well - you and Mrs V included. Of course, I do not mean to generalise and say that all consultants and administrators are overpaid.
I was replying to sqad's rather insulting comments by quoting one case of which I have knowledge.
Nevertheless, many of them are on far higher salaries than the people at the sharp end who do most valuable work, without which there would be no NHS.
Many senior administrators do a great deal of paper shuffling and attending meetings, which doesn't treat patients. Many consultants have more interest in their private work as well.
Sorry OP, I 've been carried away from your original question.
There should be a triage process, winnowing out the regular offenders and hang the compo culture.
I was replying to sqad's rather insulting comments by quoting one case of which I have knowledge.
Nevertheless, many of them are on far higher salaries than the people at the sharp end who do most valuable work, without which there would be no NHS.
Many senior administrators do a great deal of paper shuffling and attending meetings, which doesn't treat patients. Many consultants have more interest in their private work as well.
Sorry OP, I 've been carried away from your original question.
There should be a triage process, winnowing out the regular offenders and hang the compo culture.
how is bungee jumping or sky diving keeping fit?
what about a pool ball in the eye? a dart in the head?
hobbies constructive? not all...
how did your friend fall by mistake? wasnt paying attention? then charge her!
i understand why it irritated you - but i think charging wont work - simp;ly because who makes the choice? how can you say if someones injuries would not have happened whther drunk or not?
your friend is a perfect example of how easy it is to fall over when perfectly sober.
the staff were sick of them presumably because of their behaviour - perhaps loud, rowdy - not because the simple fact they were drunk... so what about the perfectly amiable drunk who was punched by another drunk for no reason?
also asking drunk people to pay £500 is asking for trouble. and if you bill them later, you would have a huge job an huge expense making sure it was paid.
what about a pool ball in the eye? a dart in the head?
hobbies constructive? not all...
how did your friend fall by mistake? wasnt paying attention? then charge her!
i understand why it irritated you - but i think charging wont work - simp;ly because who makes the choice? how can you say if someones injuries would not have happened whther drunk or not?
your friend is a perfect example of how easy it is to fall over when perfectly sober.
the staff were sick of them presumably because of their behaviour - perhaps loud, rowdy - not because the simple fact they were drunk... so what about the perfectly amiable drunk who was punched by another drunk for no reason?
also asking drunk people to pay £500 is asking for trouble. and if you bill them later, you would have a huge job an huge expense making sure it was paid.
cathfrom - we shouldn't generalise. There are the ones you know, and there are very poor ones. They all earn multiples of the pay of nurses & midwives (vide supra).
Some I know put in the minimum time on NHS patients and swan round socialising with their private patients. You obviously haven't met any of these.
I note sqad hasn't been around recently...
Some I know put in the minimum time on NHS patients and swan round socialising with their private patients. You obviously haven't met any of these.
I note sqad hasn't been around recently...
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