Do I have to refund my buyer who paid for but failed to collect goods from me 4 months ago?!

[manure]

Hi, I would be very grateful for any support and advice. I am a sole trader in vintage painted furniture. 4 months ago, I sold two small pieces to a buyer in another part of the country. Despite my terms and conditions page on my website and having also suggested by message that she obtain a courier quote she was happy with prior to purchase, she purchased these items online through my official website, using Paypal. I did not hear anything more from her, despite my attempts to contact her, until last night, when she contacted me, saying she had not seen any of my messages until last night, could not find a courier quote she liked and thus, could not go through with having the items and now wants a full refund. She has apologised for messing me around. My terms clearly state that I need purchased items to be either collected or couriered away within 7-14 days of purchase and that if I can I will store for longer if asked but that charges will apply. I also state that the courier and collection side of things is down to the buyer and that they must obtain a quote they are happy with prior to purchase. I have made several attempts at contact with no success, have waited patiently for her to contact me with no success until last night and have waited for them to be taken away, whilst not insisting on charging for storage (thinking she may have had family problems or illness and have given her the benefit of the doubt) Now I find myself in this position. I responded politely by suggesting a very competitive courier service and stated that I "would not consider a refund at this stage due to having had to store for so long etc". Please help!! Thanks so much.

[joko]

Hc, the terms of storage fees are written in the terms and conditions on the site so by making a purchase the buyer has agreed to all terms and conditions.
whether she actually read them or not is irrelevant
she has, by purchasing, already agreed to pay storage fees.

i would contact any local box storage firms and get an estimate of what they charge for storage and use that as a guide to what you charge her.
add reselling and restocking fees too.

this item is presumably large and by having to keep hold of it, it has prevented you having saleable items, you could have missed out on other buyers, and general inconvenience of refunding etc.

[hc4361]

He sold two small pieces. He should have been invoicing her monthly or weekly for storage fees if he intended to charge them at all.

[manure]

I work from home and space is incredibly limited. The money, however small an amount, was much needed and still is. They are indeed in the way and are stored in a corner of my hallway, wrapped up in duvets (!!), awaiting her contact and courier and have been for 4 months. One is larger than the other and my elderly mum has had several near misses with them. I can see the sense of what everyone here has had to say and am really grateful. I will seek legal advice as this is not a familiar situation for me and to be honest, I am really annoyed about it all, from start to now, so....any further info, please keep it coming. I want to operate within the law and my customer service is important to me but on this occasion I am very angry, enough to make a stand on it if possible. If she were to be rude on social networking, I would be livid. I do have site settings set to be able to moderate any posts first, thus I should be able to manage that and respond via Site Rules accordingly, if there were to be any angry abuse?

[cassa333]

It is situations like this that show us the areas we can improve our systems and paperwork.

[Maydup]

I suggest you wait until tomorrow when you'll feel slightly less angry but no less determined and see if you can agree a compromise with her. eg You keep the goods and she gets a percentage refund. IF she will not then go for legal advice.

It would be worth including the cost of delivery on all future sales and getting things away promptly.

[manure]

I wish I could put the cost of delivery on each item, charge for it and organise it all quickly like that but it's impossible, as all pieces are differing sizes and customers may live anywhere in the country, so it is impossible to quote for in listings. No courier will give a blanket price, they want to know what it is and where to etc, so...nightmare! Never had this before, bit of a shock to me. Thank you all, so much. I will see what she says next as I have simply responded by suggesting a very competitive courier and stated I would not consider a refund as I have had to store them both for 4 months. So...see what she says next.

[climbingtiger]

she read the terms and conditions,she broke the terms and conditions,tell her sorry but you are not a registered charity,and you will give her 10 days to collect her goods or they will be sold on,and you are being fair as you have stored them all this time for no charge ,.!

[hc4361]

climbingtiger, you are giving very bad advice which is illegal.

[climbingtiger]

are you a lawyer u seem to know everything ,advice is free and its a free country ,arrest me !

[manure]

Hi all, have just got off the phone with a solicitor, who says she, not I, is in breach of our contract as all "prior" information was available to read before she purchased (whether she did bother or not) and that communication between us thus far indicates that she was fully aware she had to engage and pay for her own courier, so she can't claim on grounds of non-delivery. That I have acted more than fairly. Also that she should have obtained and been happy with a courier quote prior to purchase and that her reason for wanting to have a refund now is unreasonable, as this is out of my control. Website states terms and conditions very clearly and is within the law, despite her stat rights, e-commerce rules and distance selling regs. Also, that I could still ask for storage charges, should I want to, as she should have read those T&Cs and been more careful . He recommends my insisting she find and get a courier within 14 days or my generosity should run out regarding those as yet unapplied storage charges, as she has rather messed me about and taken a ridiculously long time over it to boot. So....it's a case of seeing what she wants to do next and then either refund or fight it.I thank you all!!

[hc4361]

Not being cynical but of course that is what your solicitor would say :) He wants business.

Customer goodwill is EVERYTHING to a small trader. You are getting stressed and angry over one bad customer and that is not the way to go on, understandable as it is. For the sake of your business and your sanity, refund her and sell the goods. You will have lost NOTHING and avoided bad publicity via social network sites.

[manure]

Very likely to be the best course of action but will see how she responds. He's not actually my own solicitor but someone a friend knows who was good enough to listen and take my call. See how it pans out but I do see your point. Times are hard, I could done without it, small amount though it is. And I think it's SO damn cheeky of her. I think when you're a decent seller unused to such aggravation, it's a shock to the system. Thanks.

[joko]

hc, why should she just let it go? i undertsand about goodwill but it sounds to me like the sort of place that sellls odd things, and doesnt have regular customers coming back week after week. if this person badmouthed this business, and outlined the issue i doubt many people would be on her side here and consider the seller a scammer.

a solicitor has advised of the law here, and so have other people, so why are you so determined to talk her out of it?
she has warned of fees, she is not obliged to provide weekly invoices.
given the fact that all correspondence received no response it is reasonable to assume any invoice would have been ignored too.
it is also just her word against the sellers so no proof of sending or not.


i would offer her 2 choices - a refund but she pays 4 months worth of full storage fees, reseller fees etc, which you will deduct.
or
tell her to collect the item within 14 days and if she does you will waive the £*** storage fees. if she doesnt collect within 14 days, the fees will be reinstated, and will begin to increase for every week.




perhaps you should just ignore her for 4 months too... let her make all the effort...

[manure]

well said!