Save The Children Closes Jan 10
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Father wants me to join him in his bungalow.
15 Answers
I have been retired early in the London area and my father lives in the West Midlands in a 4 bedroom bungalow.
My mother passed away in 2008 and he has rightly said there is no point in me staying in London and we do not need 2 properties for 2 people.
I inherited my mothers share of the bungalow and we are tennants in common.
My main worry is if my father has to go into care would the bungalow have to be sold and I would only get half the proceeds?.
I would have the proceeds from my house sale which is worth a lot more than the bungalow but the housing market could boom again and the proceeds from the sale of my house may not be enough to buy half of the bungalow in say 10 years time.
Martin
My mother passed away in 2008 and he has rightly said there is no point in me staying in London and we do not need 2 properties for 2 people.
I inherited my mothers share of the bungalow and we are tennants in common.
My main worry is if my father has to go into care would the bungalow have to be sold and I would only get half the proceeds?.
I would have the proceeds from my house sale which is worth a lot more than the bungalow but the housing market could boom again and the proceeds from the sale of my house may not be enough to buy half of the bungalow in say 10 years time.
Martin
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How long have you lived in London? Are you leaving more behind than a house? Friends, places you know, clubs you belong to - anything? Takes a lot of thought to have to begin again. Also, and I know this may not apply to you, living with a parent is sometimes difficult. From my own point of view, the last thing I would want to do is live with my daughter, although she is loving and caring. I don't think it would last long if we were in close contact all the time.
Hi Ratter
I could buy my father out. Oddly enough I visited a friend in a nursing home a while ago and he has dementia. He is only 60.
His mother is 85 and she is still living on her own in her own house.
I know this situation is not common but the fact I have seen it shows it can happen so I want my father to have some right to the property.
Starbuckone.
I do take your point.
Unfortunately only my father, my daughter, her husband children and myself are left in the family.
My daughter lives near my father.
I live in a road where most of the people were in their 80's until 2 years ago and they were mainly at least 20 years older than me. They have now all moved either into residential care or passed away or moved in with their children and I do not know any of the present residents.
The people I used to work with have mainly left London.
Yes I do agree living with a parent is not perfect but my father is 84 and I am doubtful if he would be able to keep a large bungalow on his own for much longer. He has no problems getting food etc.
He still drives an automatic car.
Martin
I could buy my father out. Oddly enough I visited a friend in a nursing home a while ago and he has dementia. He is only 60.
His mother is 85 and she is still living on her own in her own house.
I know this situation is not common but the fact I have seen it shows it can happen so I want my father to have some right to the property.
Starbuckone.
I do take your point.
Unfortunately only my father, my daughter, her husband children and myself are left in the family.
My daughter lives near my father.
I live in a road where most of the people were in their 80's until 2 years ago and they were mainly at least 20 years older than me. They have now all moved either into residential care or passed away or moved in with their children and I do not know any of the present residents.
The people I used to work with have mainly left London.
Yes I do agree living with a parent is not perfect but my father is 84 and I am doubtful if he would be able to keep a large bungalow on his own for much longer. He has no problems getting food etc.
He still drives an automatic car.
Martin
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I think it might be an idea to buy him out now, then by way of a will, leave it to your daughter (or whoever) with the proviso that your father can live there until he dies (or goes into a nursing home) should you predecease him. The point you mention about the 60 yr old friend is a difficult one to cover - but is probably not that common. You could speak to a solicitor and find out what other options there are to cover this situation.
-- answer removed --
http://www.direct.gov...CareHomes/DG_10031525
The above site will give you some general advice, as you own as tennants in common they could only claim the value of your fathers share. By buying his share now at market value they could not accuse him of depriving himself of the property to avoid fees and that cash would be used to fund his care, you would benefit from any rise in property prices. If he has willed his share to you, as an alternative you could pay his fees from the funds you have from your property. The problem with that is if at some point he makes a new Will and you do not benefit as expected. As said Age UK are a good source of information as are the Nursing Home Financial Advisers (NHFA) but they will of course also try and sell you one of their Investment Products.
http://www.nhfa.co.uk/CareInfo.html
The above site will give you some general advice, as you own as tennants in common they could only claim the value of your fathers share. By buying his share now at market value they could not accuse him of depriving himself of the property to avoid fees and that cash would be used to fund his care, you would benefit from any rise in property prices. If he has willed his share to you, as an alternative you could pay his fees from the funds you have from your property. The problem with that is if at some point he makes a new Will and you do not benefit as expected. As said Age UK are a good source of information as are the Nursing Home Financial Advisers (NHFA) but they will of course also try and sell you one of their Investment Products.
http://www.nhfa.co.uk/CareInfo.html
Have a look at Age Concern Factsheet 38 and 40.
Under present law according to Age Concern Factsheet 38 the value of your fathers share would be nil if you are in the property as nobody would want to buy half a bungalow with somebody in it.
As long as you remain in the bungalow until after your father passes away Social Services will have no claim on it.
Also look at Age Concern Factsheet 40 as Social Services may argue deprivation of assetts has happened.
You have said that your father has no reason to think he will require care at present so this could not be validly argued.
I think there is a slight risk if your father suddenly requires care in say the next few months Social Services may argue deprivation of assetts had happened.
I am widowed like you and moved in with my mother as I inherited my fathers share of the bungalow and she needed care 3 years later.
The social worker argued I had not been in the bungalow for a substantial time and it would have to be sold.
I got a solicitor involved and within a day it was decided the council had no claim on the bunalow.
Social Services do try it on.
The only problem I could forsee is care funding is now being reviewed.
The law could change at some point in the future but I would hope regard would be given to parents / children living in the same property as joint owners prior to any possible change.
Amy
Under present law according to Age Concern Factsheet 38 the value of your fathers share would be nil if you are in the property as nobody would want to buy half a bungalow with somebody in it.
As long as you remain in the bungalow until after your father passes away Social Services will have no claim on it.
Also look at Age Concern Factsheet 40 as Social Services may argue deprivation of assetts has happened.
You have said that your father has no reason to think he will require care at present so this could not be validly argued.
I think there is a slight risk if your father suddenly requires care in say the next few months Social Services may argue deprivation of assetts had happened.
I am widowed like you and moved in with my mother as I inherited my fathers share of the bungalow and she needed care 3 years later.
The social worker argued I had not been in the bungalow for a substantial time and it would have to be sold.
I got a solicitor involved and within a day it was decided the council had no claim on the bunalow.
Social Services do try it on.
The only problem I could forsee is care funding is now being reviewed.
The law could change at some point in the future but I would hope regard would be given to parents / children living in the same property as joint owners prior to any possible change.
Amy
-- answer removed --
I think the main thing is to stick to your guns with Social Services.
My father lived with my husband and myself in a 5 bedroom detached house.
He was assessed as qualifying for full NHS funding after being assessed for Social Funding.
Our address was on the hospital records but I had completed his financial assessment form and stated my father did not own the house.
Dad was in hospital for 150 days and several homes would not take him.
A home was found which would take him.
The Social Worker then came to us and said she would recomend we should finance the home as it was going to take time to get the finance approved and the room could be gone. She said Dad was degenerating in hospital and the home could go some way to put him right.
I just refused knowing the NHS was responsible for Dad's accomodation.
Knowing I was not going to pay finance was approved 5 days later and Dad was moved to the nursing home.
Dad has now been there for just over 2 years costing the NHS £850 per week and I am just about to go to visit him. My attitude is why should my husband and myself ruin our retirement because of my father's dementia?.
Kate
My father lived with my husband and myself in a 5 bedroom detached house.
He was assessed as qualifying for full NHS funding after being assessed for Social Funding.
Our address was on the hospital records but I had completed his financial assessment form and stated my father did not own the house.
Dad was in hospital for 150 days and several homes would not take him.
A home was found which would take him.
The Social Worker then came to us and said she would recomend we should finance the home as it was going to take time to get the finance approved and the room could be gone. She said Dad was degenerating in hospital and the home could go some way to put him right.
I just refused knowing the NHS was responsible for Dad's accomodation.
Knowing I was not going to pay finance was approved 5 days later and Dad was moved to the nursing home.
Dad has now been there for just over 2 years costing the NHS £850 per week and I am just about to go to visit him. My attitude is why should my husband and myself ruin our retirement because of my father's dementia?.
Kate
If you buy your father out at the present full market value you would have no reason to sell the house to pay for any future care fees as the house will be yours and you would not be liable for his fees.
As the recipient of the money your father would have cash assets to pay. Therefore again you would not be liable.
In theory you could also charge your father the going rate in rent etc (even if it were then partly returned ;)) so could prove the assets were being used in a normal manner.
As already said if you live in the house as tennats in common you cannot be compelled to sell while you live there.
Personaly if I were able to buy him out I would. It would give your security and he would have cash in his old age and not have to worry about money. Win win situation :)
As the recipient of the money your father would have cash assets to pay. Therefore again you would not be liable.
In theory you could also charge your father the going rate in rent etc (even if it were then partly returned ;)) so could prove the assets were being used in a normal manner.
As already said if you live in the house as tennats in common you cannot be compelled to sell while you live there.
Personaly if I were able to buy him out I would. It would give your security and he would have cash in his old age and not have to worry about money. Win win situation :)
Hi Cassa 333.
As long as Martin stays in the house until after his father passes away under present law he will inherit the whole house assuming his fathers share is willed to him so buying his fathers share now will just mean the father will have money to be taken by the council if he has to go into care.
Unfortunately we can not tell what future law changes will happen.
The government may say for example if the children have over so much income / wealth then they might have to contribute to their parents fees.
I would hope if the law was changed regard would be given to parents / children sharing a home relying on the present rules.
The problem which may happen is if say a parent / child bought a house jointly and occupied it together now and say the parent did not need care until say 2040 would records exist showing thr joint owner / occupation started prior t showinghe change in the law.
I supose a record could be kept at the land registry.
Amy
As long as Martin stays in the house until after his father passes away under present law he will inherit the whole house assuming his fathers share is willed to him so buying his fathers share now will just mean the father will have money to be taken by the council if he has to go into care.
Unfortunately we can not tell what future law changes will happen.
The government may say for example if the children have over so much income / wealth then they might have to contribute to their parents fees.
I would hope if the law was changed regard would be given to parents / children sharing a home relying on the present rules.
The problem which may happen is if say a parent / child bought a house jointly and occupied it together now and say the parent did not need care until say 2040 would records exist showing thr joint owner / occupation started prior t showinghe change in the law.
I supose a record could be kept at the land registry.
Amy
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