Is anybody looking into getting rid of

[bazwillrun]

any of the administrators and untold legions of managers in the hospitals ?

http://www.walesonlin...anges-91466-31397425/

[Sqad]

baz.........I do not want to get too deeply involved in this as in my experience it degenerates into personal attacks....but......in my opinion it has been staring one in the face for many years, indeed decades, that a consideration in the reduction of nursing and medical staff salaries, had to be addressed.

[patsyann]

In my opinion it is not the Doctors and Nurses that need to be cut down. It is the vast amount of management lording it in their swanky offices who need to be removed. My Friend in microbiology used to watch all the posh furniture being delivered in a back entrance near to her place of work. They were never needed in the good old days and the medical staff don't want them now.

[bazwillrun]

i'm not going to say at which hospital, but my brother was an NHS Consultant oncologist/ surgeon until very recently.

He has just resigned from NHS because of the way the hospital was run, the imbeciles that run it and the reduction of trained up to standard radiologists.
and he made it very clear in the form he had to fill out with in the "reasons for leaving" section what his views where and how they were leaving a prestigious unit in a dangerous position for patients due to their total unsuitability to be running a hospital

I have been at his house and heard some of the phone calls to some of the idiots he has to deal with and thats just get an official days leave booked and them telling him he cant take it.

He then calls and gets legal advice from the BMA i think it was, calls the hospital back and blah blah blah, next day he gets an email from the hospital saying that in this case they are going to let him take it, they are trying to make it sound as if they are doing him a favour and letting him take the time off that he is entitled to.

Apparrently its very rare for Consultants to resign from the NHS, they usually retire, but my brother really couldnt be bothered dealing with these people anymore so he finally left with them owing him three months of annual leave (they wouldnt pay him but offered time off in lieu) that he had accrued by helping to cover other surgeons that were off for various reasons and operating to help clear a backlog on the operating lists so they could get the waiting times down.

This was last year, and he is still lives in the area and is in touch with some colleagues, who are telling him the hospital is being ruined by all the managers and box ticking.

[Gromit]

31,000 jobs have gone in the NHS.

Cameron says these were not frontline people (Doctors and Nurses). So they must have been administrative and clerical jobs.

Unless you think Cameron is lying.

[sandyRoe]

Sqad, should they bring back the role of The Lady Almoner to ensure that no nurse, or other medical staff member, finds themselves if dire financial straits?

[modeller]

This is the story of every state run organisation. My friend was the
Hospital Administrator of a major London hospital ( I admit I don't know what that entails ) however at the time of his retirement he had a staff of 5 but according to him 3 years later his department, doing exactly the same job as far as he could see, had swollen to 53 and the office accommodation was palatial.

Similarly in education according to a caretaker in our local school if he wanted some cleaning materials, all he had to do was ring up a person in the county's education dept. and the same person would drop the stuff in on his way home. All this changed a senior manager was appointed with two under- managers all with their own staff and a van had to make a 50 mile return journey to deliver the supplies. A simple phone call was replaced with a six page order form and a wait of 14 days .

I've no doubt there would be a long explanation of how in both these cases all this came about but the bottom line is, all big organisations become inefficient over a period of time but state funded ones are by far the worse.

[cathfromsaron]

*whispers*

IMHO, years ago when *women became nurses, on comparative low-ish pay for the responsibility, the 'caring profession' seemed really much more 'caring'!

*(i know men can be excellent nurses before you say ...)

BUT if you see a consultant, specialist nurse or have an xray etc, how do you think your results/progress is recorded and passed back top the GP, or the appointment is made in the first place, without support of the admin staff? and managers manage the money to enable the above!

cath x

[emmie]

you obviously need admin staff, what you don't need are separate departments that order materials, say for example in hospital. It had been highlighted fairly recently in one London hospital, that each dept of the hospital was like a little fiefdom, each ordering their own equipment, no one seemed to think it odd that they weren't coordinating the services across the entire hospital, thus using different suppliers along the way, do you understand that mentality, because i don't. It seems that as it's public money, why worry, more where that came from.

[pdq1]

I bet there is a big upsurge in people joining BUPA, etc. which suits the Tories hands down.

[Sqad]

pdq1

\\\I bet there is a big upsurge in people joining BUPA, etc. which suits the Tories hands down.\\\

Why?

I bet it suits the company of BUPA more.

[lcg]

YYes.....but as a nurse i must say that that have sacked people nilly Willy in my hospital and it has devastated services and support for patients. It is also an accident waiting to happen.......and in a psych hospital........that's not good; and if it affected you or your family you would be the first to moan and jump up and down. Our staff are petrified of being blamed for a death of a patient or someone oharming a member of the public because there is noone to check things properly. Some of my colleagues have caaeloads of 60 to 70 patients. How on earth can you safely monitor that many people in the community? Oh.......and t trust have just closed 120 beds too. More unwell people in the community = trouble. Please don't think all nursing or medical staff sit around on there arse doing nothing. The changes where i work are simply dangerous .

[albaqwerty]

Humph, Susu is wearing that weird jacket again, can't make up my mind whether it's supposed to be faux snakeskin or what.
Sally's blouse is interesting, but Carol's back. Lovely dress.

[albaqwerty]

ignore me, done it again. Sorry.

[lcg]

AAnd i get paid a princely sum of £1375 a month to work in a short staffed, stressful environment and leave work late every day to ensure my work is done. I get verbally abused every day and physically assaulted every now and then but still have to go back the next day and face that person. I live in the south and my rent is £700 a month, so have to work at least 60 odd hours a week to support my family. Its such a doddle being a nurse really.

[emmie]

Icg, i have long known through personal experience, of cost cutting in the NHS, especially mental health centres. Many staff are being cut, moved and centres shut. It isn't right, but not sure how one tells the idiot people who are doing it that it will bite them in the arse eventually.

[sandyRoe]

I'd bet few of the politicians, and the bean counters they employ to make the cuts, use much of the service they're decimating.

[emmie]

sandyr. things need to change, it's how you do it that matters, you can't keep on shovelling money into a bottomless pit. The services you get are often poor, please don't tell me they are not, long long waiting lists, often uncaring doctors, lazy and incompetent staff. NOT ALL, before you jump down my throat. But it's the culture that's different now, many nursing staff do not have time seemingly to do the basics, and do not see nursing as a career but a job, as to the outsourcing of cleaning, that is a nightmare.

[Johnysid]

Top hospital management get paid about 3 times the pay of a junior doctor. At some NHS hospitals there are only 3 junior doctors in place at night, each looking after 5 or 6 wards and forced to work 70-80 hours a week non-stop. The conditions are so bad that I know of several juniors who are moving to other countries to get a decent post.

The managers justify their pay by saying that they are no worse than banksters or robber-CEOs in large corporates:

"David Stout, the NHS Confederation's deputy chief executive, said: "NHS organisations are large and complex in nature and require the right managerial skills to be led effectively. A large city hospital could have a budget of between £500 million and £1 billion and employ as many as 10,000 staff - comparable to many FTSE 250 companies."" http://www.independen...ed-by-45-2281792.html