Police Caution...can it be appealed ? Impact on CRB

[Headteacher89]

I'm a Headteacher and following the end of a relationship I was slow on the uptake and texted/called/visited to persuade partner that we should try again...nothing violent...nothing malicious...just naive love frankly.....when I finally got the message I went one last time to see her and she called the polcie and had me arrested for Harrassment.

Now I know that I was stupid, naive,,,etc etc...but I just thought the police would do the right thing...I am utterly ashamed that I ended up in a cell and frankly they could have got me to sign anything to get out of there...I agreed to a formal caution without speaking to a solicitor...now of course I have a caution against my CRB...which clearly in teaching is a massive no no...I've been to my Union (who basically said not to worry too much...minor offence...shouldn't have any impact really...) and now the school Chair of Govs who has to decide if this offence indicates that i'm unfit to teach/lead a school (frankly I feel so stupid...being so idiotic might !)....

I just know that a solicitor would have had a dispassionate view and moved things quickly away...frankly the time in the cell was more than enough to ensure I never ever go anywhere near the girl again...let alone the career threatening caution....

Can you appeal a caution ? I appreciate the fct that I signed to agree...but there almost needs a cooling off period...when the emotion wears away a little and rationality sets back in...

Is there anything at all that can be done ?

[twistedinferno]

Hi Headteacher
Did you try to appeal this?
I have been studying to become a teacher but have just received a caution for harassment. I don't have a job yet. In your experience as a teacher how much do you think this will affect me in trying to get a job as a secondary school teacher?
If you think you were unfortunate. I split up with my girlfriend and had contacted her a few times, then received a police warning. A month later, after no contact, I received a pleasant response from my ex girlfriend after asking about her exams (we were together for 1 year), I sent three further emails just asking if she would consider coming back in a nice and nonthreatening way, got one email back saying she does not love me any more (I really did believe that she did), then I sent three more, 1 asking the same question, 2 apologising for asking that question and the last asking if she might consider just being friends sometime.
I was arrested the day after, put in the cell for eight hours, I said I didn't need a solicitor and now I have a police caution. I feel incredibly angry as I feel my future has been destroyed but I'm really hoping that is an over reaction.
At no point during my arrest did I admit to harassment, or admit to knowing that it upset or intimidated and at no during sending those emails did I know that it would (I would not have sent them otherwise). They told me that because I had admitted to sending the emails that was proof of guilt. If I refused the caution the police told me my computer would be sezied, my shared flat searched (I was particularly embarrassed by this as I live with two friends), I might be given a full criminal conviction (didn't really understand how similar a caution is to it) and that I would have to go to court. I did speak with a solicitor briefly on the telephone (he was terrible) but was refused the right to speak with one a second time and denied trying another friend after they couldn't get through to my brother.
I am trying my hardest not to be livid but feel I have been served a great injustice and will have to pay for it for the rest of my life.
Any kind words, advice or support would help.
Thanks

[twistedinferno]

a bit more to the story...
(prior to receiving this nice response from my ex I had sent a number of emails to her. I was struggling to accept it as she had told me she I was the one a few days earlier and she refused to give me any reason as to why we had split. I met her outside her work, fully open to going away if she didn't want to speak to me, she ended up throwing herself at me after ten minutes of talking and kissed me for a good minute, we talked some more and she told me she wanted to end it. I sent her a couple of emails saying I was really confused, I love her, I want her back, then I received a warning from the police which was why I left it a month before contacting her again)

[Headteacher89]

Hi twisted...no I didn't appeal, largely because I was a real prat and took matters into my own hands and made everything worse...nothing really bad, but given the previous story it was viewed poorly and I ended up in more serious position....to a degree it is all resolved now, but as it stands with crb I will always have my stupidity hanging over me when it comes to promotion etc.
So..my advice...for what it's worth...what ever you do don't have anything to do with this girl ever again..and if she contacts you either ignore it or not reply and go to the police.
Secondly..get advice from a solicitor about the job and the caution..if I'm honest a caution might make a difference but if you are a membr of a union then they will be able to help...the nasuwt were all really helpful for me. The have solicitors who may be able to help for free over the phone.
Lastly, read those messages that were written to me with a pinch of salt...everyone wants to play the role of arbiter of truth and justice...giving their opinions to support the other party...but there are some points that might be fair...i work for an authority that basically told me I was a bit stupid etc...but that the punishment fitted the crime...and that because it didn't relate to drugs or children in any way they weren't really that bothered...remember that there is always a tendency to side with the girl because they are 'the weaker sex'...I was desperate for people to understand my side but finally realised that they weren't that bothered.

Sorry this isn't partic positive

[twistedinferno]

Thanks for your response. I'm not a member of a union (don't have a job at the moment) but I do have a little money behind me so I will try to appeal it. I will let you know how I get on and post back here. Looking back at the emails I don't think this would have stood in court as the girl did email me and I responded to it (ok, I sent about seven responses which may be too many but the girl did not say it was upsetting her and did not tell me they were unwelcome).

Yes, totally agree with you that the police should support a girl in distress. However, I don't think this punishment fits the crime, maybe it did in your case. Mine was emails only, didn't help that I shouted at the police when they gave me my first warning. I'm worried that I may not respond differently in a similar situation. If the girl I love breaks up with me then I want to plead with her to come back if I still love her and tell her I think she is making a mistake. I want to show her that I love her, this is what I was doing and I think I would do it again. I guess my lesson is try really really really hard two or three times with a little break in between then, if nothing works then give up and accept she doesn't want me and treat all she said before about me being 'the one' as naievity on her part. What I did do was send this drip drip drip of a message over and over again which just pissed her off. It would be great if I could act without emotion on such matters such as losing the girl who I hope to spend the rest of my life with and means everything to me.

Lessons
- Don't ever shout at a policeman.
- Send two or three massive 'I love you' statements one way or the other and give them time to sink in. If they don't work then give up.
- If she contacts the police then do not EVER in my life deal with her again as I will know how heartless she can be.
- Get my own solicitor to sit in with me during the interview (and not a duty one either)
- Resist a caution if I believe I am not guilty (difficult to say when you've been put in a cell for ten hours and the only people talking to you are telling you that you are mad not to accept a caution and deny you talking to a solicitor for a second time or a friend)

I'll keep you updated on what happens with the appeal. The problem I'm having now is anger towards her (which was not there before!) and how someone who I loved so dearly could be so vindictive to destroy my future.

[Headteacher89]

Twisted. I am astonished how similar your situation sounds than mine..although I didn't shout....that said don't worry too much about that...don't forget that the person judging won't be hat police officer and is highly unlikely to be reported. I think you need to try what I failed...do everything you can to focus away from the anger or accept it but deal with it in any other way than with her.
A solicitor will have the opportunity to be completely dispassionate about the issue and therefore give you great advice.
The advice I got at one point was that the girl doesn't have to reply to say she doesn't like or want the contact...

[twistedinferno]

The people who know this situation in detail are the police, my ex girlfriend, myself and a councillor (been getting some help the last couple of months). They all thought that my actions were wrong and feel that it should have been obvious to me that sending those emails was wrong and distressing. Deep down I think I do know that a couple of emails I sent would cause distress even though that was not my intention. I reasoned that causing her distress was less important than trying to get back together; not the most romantic of gestures. Also, I couldn't admit losing her to myself because I was so upset and I could only handle a more gradual a loss (she made a decision and has been very stubborn and very definite about it, a good quality really).

The anger has subsided and the acceptance of my failings are becoming apparent.

I think that I could be guilty, a more stern and final talking to would have been more beneficial than a police caution. However, I don't think it is fair that I will have to declare this for the rest of my life if I pursue my goal of teaching. I believe that if people show remorse, realise their failings I should be forgiven, especially for small offences (I still see this as very borderline if it actually was harassment or not). If I got 2 years in jail for GBH for say hitting someone with a sledgehammer a couple of times it would be spent after ten years and then I would not have to declare it if I applied for a job as a postman for example. However with this caution and when applying for a job as a teacher I will have to admit it for the rest of my life. I think that is not very fair.

[Headteacher89]

Sadly that's true...and here we find ourselves in largely the same position. In training for safer recruitment managers and governors are told to ignore the box that you will have to tick when they are short listing...and the chair of governors or the HT makes a decision as to whether it is relevant for the panel to know the detail...sadly this is completely at their discretion. Following any appointment the head still needs to meet you to discuss this...even if it is to say it's nothing.
If you are a student teacher then union membership is free...I really think you should consider discussing with them.
If you ever have any communication from this girl remember how you felt when she had you Put in a cell.

[twistedinferno]

I have been speaking to a couple of solicitors. It sounds like because I did not admit to the offence during the interview there may be grounds to appeal on a technicality but it's not guaranteed and it'll cost about £1500 even before I get to court.

Here is a definition of the word harassment
http://www.cps.gov.uk..._and_harassment/#a02a

'Although harassment is not specifically defined it can include repeated attempts to impose unwanted communications and contacts upon a victim in a manner that could be expected to cause distress or fear in any reasonable person.'

I did not expect my actions to cause distress, the last time I had heard or seen her she was still in love with me. Also, her last two correspondences, of which were cordial, did not tell me it was causing her distress or tell me to stop.

[Headteacher89]

mmm well fundamentally you need to decide whether you have the 'money to burn'..it could be money well spent, if it helps you with any job application - although it will never feel like that because fundamentally you understand yourself to be 'in the right'...I guess the solicitor can give his/her advice on the likelihood of a successful outcome. That said, £1500 sounds alot when you are seeking to prove your innocence. Yet again, I'm afraid, we are in a position where the starting defence is that the girl is always the victim. Would be keen to hear the outcome

[twistedinferno]

Conditional Cautions

The Divisional Court has made it clear in R (on the application of Guest) v DPP 2009 that, as with a simple (or "police" caution), the decision to administer a conditional caution may be judicially reviewed. If showen to be unlawful, either because the proper procedures have not been followed, or because it has been given in respect of an offence that is outside the Director's Guidance, or because it is otherwise unreasonable on Wednesbury principles, the decision to authorise and then administer a conditional caution may be quashed and then caution set aside.

[twistedinferno]

A previous case...
http://www.bailii.org.../Admin/2006/1904.html

"A formal caution is a serious matter. It is recorded by the police; it should influence them in their decision whether or not to institute proceedings if the person should offend again; and it may be cited in any subsequent court proceedings. In order to safeguard the offender's interests, the following conditions must be met before a caution can be administered -

-there must be evidence of the offender's guilt sufficient to give a realistic prospect of conviction;

- the offender must admit the offence;

- the offender (or, in the case of a juvenile, his parents or guardian) must understand the significance of a caution and give informed consent to being cautioned. …

Note 2B A caution will not be appropriate where a person does not make a clear and reliable admission of the offence (for example if intent is denied or there are doubts about his mental health or intellectual capacity). …

Note 2D: In practice consent to the caution should not be sought until it has been decided that cautioning is the correct course"

[Sarah62]

My Son was in a on-off relationship and they have a son together. His girlfriend has been blowing hot & cold for the last few months, having him round her house when it suited her and she needed a babysitter. She really played games with him. He saw her on the Sunday, they spent the day together but during the week she would not answer her phone, he tried texting her to ask how his son was and still not reply so he sent an email saying it might be best if they just stayed friends for their sons sake. On the Friday evening the Police came to his house and arrested him. They took him to the station where he spent the next 7 hours. He declined a solicitor as he thought because he was innocent he did not need one. All he had done was send 4 texts and 1 email and he called at the house once. He was released on bail and they took his phone off him and told him he would get it back when he came back to answer his bail. He was due to have his son on the saturday (he has a court order from the family courts) and the police said it was ok to pick his son up but surprise surprise she again did not answer the door. This girl is using the police to try and stop my son seeing his son. I find it disgraceful that 3 police officers turned up on a Friday night to arrest my son on a triviality. Things need to change as women are using the law for their own ends.

[fardaoussi]

if the government is serious in getting 1.5 million people to work they must adopt the European and north american policy which make cautions automatically taken off after 4 years otherwise you will have people may never get to work due to old mistake that they committed in the passed .

[maz16]

I was befriended by a lady several years ago and did all I could to help her fit in. Long story short, people told me she was sleeping with my partner and father of my young baby. Being a quiet person, I avoided asking her about it until 3 months later. On the day in question (Nov 2004) my mum came withme for support. During my time at the house I broke down telling her what had been said, she comforted me, apologised and asked if we could just forget it all. I agreed and apologised for believing it. The following day she avoided me and I thought this was due to embarassment and choseto leave things as they were. In March 2005, 4 months after not talking to this lady, I had a knock at the door, a PC told me I had to go to the station. On getting there I had my photo, prints etc done and was taken into a room where he recorded an 8 PAGE statement, claiming that I had actually harmed and threatened her the day I went up and had been harming her, threatening her since. I told him afterwards that it was nothing like that and I had infact done NOTHING and that it was her who was parking outside MY house and spreading rumours etc. He told me he wouldn't take me seriously as she had made the claims first. He told me before all this that if I wanted to be home quickly with my children then I wouldn't need a solicitor as this would take too much time waiting and it didn't warrant me having one anyway. So understandably after 3 hours of being made to sit in the interview room waiting to see what was going to happen next, I was only too willing to do anything to get home and cry. I was told the caution wouldn't harm me at all. This was just one of many occasions I had a visit from the police (with no numbers on unform)!!... Make me a visit and threaten to take things further. I should mention that the person who accused me of all this has a husband who works for the police!!! I went to a solicitors to see where I stood with it all and they were shocked at how I had been treated. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford to take it all through court and it was left there. However I am now training to be a TA and it has come up on my CRB. I feel so ashamed and upset having to re-live this over and over.