puppy behaviour, toilet training and chewing

[katiecarol]

I got a 12 week old, collie/Labrador cross very recently. I was told she wasn't fully house trained. the first two day she would use the training mats in the bathroom and only had a couple of accidents, we were very impressed with her. strangely it seems though that she wouldn't go either way outside, she would wait until back and go straight to the training pads. i did think well we would need to clean up her toileting whether inside or out and as it was in one place in the bathroom i didn't mind this. however the last few days she has urinated on any floor and messed in the kitchen. when she does we say no then take her to the mats in the bathroom. She still doesn't use outside and only used the yard at my mom's when she was left out for a while. i am in a one bed flat where the bathroom is through the bedroom and the kitchen and front are kind of one room with no door in between, there is also no door in between the kitchen and the hallway. My yard is not accessible from my flat, you need to go out the front door to the side and is communicable. Can anyone advise on this and any chewing issue advice please.

[rsvp]

Think about it - are you going to train her to use 'training mats' or are you going to train her to 'go' outside -also think about are you the best owner for this pup - seems there are a lot of conflicting signals going out to this dog.

[katiecarol]

rsvp - i have always been told that you provide mats then move them towards the door so it is nearer outside. i am not bothered that she doesn't go outside as i said we would have to clean up after her wherever she does her business. the first few days she went to the mats and only did it there which would be absolutely fine as i stated but now she suddenly goes practically all over the flat. i don't know if you meant it in this way but your answer came across as patronizing about me asking for advice on a new puppy. i have asked immediately as i am not so stupid to think i can wait 6mths when if carried on this behaviour will be harder to break than now. MAYBE TO OTHERS I SHOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT MY PUPPY WAS TAKEN FROM THE MOM BY THE WOMAN WHO OWNED HER TWO WEEKS BEFORE SHE SHOULD HAVE THEN ANOTHER FAMILY HAD HER FOR A FEW WEEKS AND THEY HAD TO LET HER GO AS THEY COULD NOT WALK HER VERY MUCH DUE TO OTHER COMMITMENTS.

[FredPuli43]

Let's start at the beginning. Your a flat dweller, a problem from the start.

How easy is it for the pup or any dog to get outside from inside your flat? I haven't understood the 'geography' of this. The pup is still young yet.Are you with the pup all the time? The price of Liberty carpets is eternal vigilence ! You have to be alert to all the signs that the pup is about to urinate or defecate. The fastest movement known to dogdom is between the old handler seeing the first sign and scooping the pup up and putting it outside (whereupon the pup, surprised, promptly does nothing, but patience is required because it will eventually) When the result is achieved, the handler praises the pup.

Now, you may say you get no warning, but you do unless the pup is very young."Outside" is a bit much if it would involve carrying the pup down seven flights of stairs; both of you would have forgotten why you're outside. So, if hampered in this way, you carry the pup to a sheet of newspaper, or fancy training mat, always set in the same place, instead, and praise with "Good boy/girl !!!" on performance. The pup will eventually learn to perform only in the one place; that's when the approval is gained, and will tend to go there again, particularly if it can also smell the spot as one used before (not essential, but helpful).

With time pups gain more bladder control. That's when on seeing any sign you can walk the dog outside. It prefers to perform on grass (or lamp posts) anyway; that's nature. When it sees that you put it outside, in walks or just on a sign, it will start to indicate that wish by looks and moves to the door.

[pastafreak]

Please [ do ] be bothered that she doesn't go outside. Right now she is a puppy and cute and 'she can't help it'. Wait til she's an adult and pooing every where. Houstraining is one aspect of a dog learnig to live with us-not the other way around.
As for training in a flat-it is perfectly possible. I did with a 2-year old lurcher who'd never been indoors. I had to take her down 2 flights - no big deal if the end result is clean floors.
Instead of putting her on the puppy pads as soon as she messes-take her straight outdoors-every time. Also-take her out at 15-20 minute intervals until she does go...then praise her like crazy. This will work-it just takes patience. My front hall by the door was covered in newspaper for 2 weeks-but it worked.

[katiecarol]

thanks pastafreak for giving helpful advice that i was after and not making me feel like you only answered to critisize me for asking for advice.

[rsvp]

katiecarol - I wasn't trying to patronise you or make you feel silly for asking for advice - sorry it came over that way. However, when reading your op it came across as confusing for the pup - you say she will only go in your Mom's yard when she is left out for a while so perhaps that's the answer to why she won't go at home , she's not stayng out long enough and/or being taken out often enough. I really agree with pastafreak and fredpuli's advice.

[katiecarol]

thank you rsvp, that last comment was appreciated. we don't go to my mom's with the dog often because we want her to know where home is. i am used to older dogs and so a puppy has thrown me out a little. i want to be strict with her for good results but not at the expense of her losing her personality and being trained to death. the book i brought basically saying give treats for good behaviour only which is fine sounding but also means apparently the dog isn't allowed to play with a toy until it has done something well so cannot play with toys when it wants. it also says only show affection as a reward and not just because we like her.

[rsvp]

My way with puppies has always been lots of love, really praise any good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour. Dogs don't go out of their way to irritate and annoy, they just don't know what we want. I'm sure you'll be fine with her and please keep us updated on her progress.

[lankeela]

The art of house training a puppy is to take it out every time it wakes up before it has a chance to go anywhere indoors, every time it has eaten, when it has been playing for a few minutes, and other times in between. You have to give her the chance to go outside and stay out with her till she has done something. You also need to get up early to do this,so you catch her before she wakes up and needs to go. It is not fair to keep a dog in a flat and not allow it to go out to the toilet. Its also not hygienic.

[katiecarol]

thanks rsvp, the book by the dog expert says don't show them any affection until they have done something good which is not how you care/love someone or a pet. we have been doing as pastafreak says and taking her out every 20mins when at home and has been outside to urinate only at the moment. have taken her to the beach for a walk and lunch which she seemed to like esp when i went paddleing with her. didnt want to let her off the lead until she has been a couple of times and gets used to it. today we have brought a whistle to hopefully use as a distraction method when she nips us. the book never told us that puppies teeth and having only had old dogs before i never knew this. so it feels better knowing that the nipping is part of that. she is so good with other dogs and people and i am grateful for that because she is a gorgeous and loving dog.

[rsvp]

If she nips you katiec -let out a couple of really loud, sharp yelps just as one of her brothers or sisters would do then ignore her for a short while. Never be tempted to smack her on the nose. You need to do it each time she nips you - and don't encourage her to play tug of war with anything. I'm sure are trying to do the very best for your puppy and wish you lots of happy times with her. Maybe you could think about taking her to puppy classes when she's had all her injections - great fun for you and the pup and you'll get lots of help there too.

[katiecarol]

thanks for that, what pasta freak said re taking her out is working rather well. although the nipping has stopped with a lot esp when i say no, she has decided she will nip clothes that people are wearing and toes/feet. local pets at home have said they have classes and am seriously thinking that as a prevention of bad behaviour.

[jules77]

As others have already said you need to take her out frequently and wait with her until she does something. Lots of dogs wont do anything on a lead, even adults, and IMO, training pads in the house are what she associates she has to use. Have you tried taking a training pad outside with you? I wish you luck, as I would find it extremely difficult to train a puppy if I didnt have access to an enclosed garden close at hand. I have recently house trained a puppy and didnt put any paper down in the house, as I wanted her to know the house wasnt the place to 'go'. She has less than a handful of 'accidents'. Good for you though for taking her on when no one else wanted her.

[katiecarol]

thank you jules, to you and the others that are helping. it seems amazing but the 20 min thing by pastafreak has made a difference. the up-to-date professional book was rather strict and i wasn't too hapy with that but today a picked up an oldish book that is easy to understand and much kinder, i am already implementing some pieces i have read and i feel more comfortable and i have seen a slightly different (better) response from my puppy. i just need for my partner to treat her the same too as he can't still to one thing as he loses his rag when she doesn't understand straight away, he doesn't so why should she? still looking good so far.

[pastafreak]

That's brilliant to hear,katie...progress, and it's only been a few days! Well done. In a few months you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

[katiecarol]

i know i will wonder at all the fuss. poor dog has had 3 homes in as many weeks or less from what i can tell so i guess as she has been here more than a few days she feels more secure. i have had better behaviour and toilet training, biting is a lot less, just work on the biting what she shouldn't part now. she is even getting on well with my son's jack russell quite well. which is great as i have him over night next week and in a few weeks i have him stay for a week while son is away.