Making petrol from air and water

[robert551069]

Reported in the Independent Newspaper today is the news that scientists have made petrol from the carbon dioxide in the air and hydrogen in water.
Air Fuel Synthesis, of Stockton-on Trent, have produced 5 litres of petrol in their laboratory.
The Institute of Mechanical Engineers have verified their experiment

[woofgang]

What was the cost of manufacturing it and does it burn any cleaner than the kind refined from crude oil?

[buildersmate]

I think the idea is to produce answers, not more questions.

It takes energy to produce petrol from its chemical constituent components (H, C and O). What this organisation has done is taken energy from somewhere else (electricity from the Grid, wherever) to do this. If that energy was generated from a renewable source (a solar panel, say), then the petrol is 'free', but in no more way than stuffing a load of solar panels on your roof.

A lot of technical equipment (which initself requires resources to produce) is required to enable the conversion - a bit like soalr panels. But eventually there could be economies of scale in making the necessary equipment.

[woofgang]

well the OP didn't post a question so i thought that I would lol.

[rojash]

I shouldn't get too excited just yet.
Currently, they can't actually make it from air, they have to use manufactured carbon dioxide, and they need electricity, currently generated from fossil fuels.

[DenysB]

The main point is that once we generate a significant proportion okf electricity from renewable sources there will be times when a surplus of energy is being generated, and apart from the pumped storage reservoir at Dinorwic, we have no way of storing it. If we could convert that surplus energy into liquid fuel (using carbon dioxide which is in, or would otherwise go into, the atmosphere), we could also begin to decarbonise transport emissions. The attraction of this approach is that the methanol produced can be added to petrol and burned in existing engines without modification (as in Indy car racing or as we used to do during the second world war). The alternatives - charging up electric cars, or using hydrogen - require enormous infrastructure investments, which this doesn't. It does, however, need time and money to develop into a scaled up and commercially viable process.

[buildersmate]

Great to see someone who understands it and can explain it in short order - which is better than the pathetic coverage in the media this morning.

[woofgang]

oh okay, so its methanol that is made, not petrol......I can see the attraction of that.

[DenysB]

You can also convert methanol into DME (dimethyl ether), a good substitute for diesel.

[LazyGun]

The Daily Mail has a useful schematic on how the methanol is produced.

Does seem interesting....

http://www.dailymail....ds-energy-crisis.html

[jake-the-peg]

This isn't that spectacular an achievement - very promising but just a start.

It's important because petrol or diesel is just about the best way of transporting energy - beats hydrogen into a cocked hat.

This process would seem to be essentailly carbon neutral.


As hinted above it's all about efficiency and scaling

If you lose 99.99% of the energy in making it there's no future

At first penecillin could only be produced in tiny quantities but was made to scale - on the other hand high temperature superconductors have yet to make it out of the lab.


But if it can be made to scale and is modestly efficient dessert coutries with a water supply could be set as the world's petrol suppliers. So I guess Namibia's going to be the place to be!

[New Judge]

"...once we generate a significant proportion okf electricity from renewable sources there will be times when a surplus of energy is being generated"

Yeah, right !!!!!!

[buildersmate]

Well it sure beats consuming at an alarming rate the stored energy of the sun (in coal and oil), built up over zillions of years before the greedy barstewards of the present day got in on the act.

[pdq1]

Yes I wondered if a similar question had been put elsewhere. Maybe the answers in the Science section should be more scientific rather than motoring in general.