Petrol from Air

[pdq1]

http://www.airfuelsyn...nology/timetable.html

Will this be commericially profitable after they have done the experiments? The process has been checked and verified OK and by using renewable fuels will be much cheaper to produce. The big oil companies have tried to get in on the act but their advances have been turned down.

Just a few years ago they proved they could get petrol from water but it turned out to be a dead duck. Will this go the same way?

[woofgang]

http://www.theanswerb.../Question1180421.html

[pdq1]

Yes I wondered if a similar question had been put elsewhere. Maybe the answers in the Science section should be more scientific rather than motoring in general.

[plowter]

The petrol doesn't come from fresh air.
A key ingredient is sodium hydroxde - where does that come from?
It also seems to invlove a lot of electrolysis - which means energy.
An interesting development but until someone makes it commercially viable can't see it happening.

[EDDIE51]

It is quite possible to make fuel from Carbon Dioxide , wich is what was done here. The problem is that it takes more energy to convert the Carbon Dioxide into fuel than you get back out by using the fuel. Only viable if we found a source of free electricity. Then if we did have the free electricity it would make a lot more sense to use it to split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen then use the Hydrogen as fuel.

[beso]

It is a complete load of cobblers.

Anyone who "invests" will never see their money again.

[modeller]

This uses power from wind turbines at night that otherwise would go to waste.

[jno]

it shouldn't go to waste, they ought to use it to power torches

[jake-the-peg]

//by using renewable fuels will be much cheaper to produce. //

Where on Earth did you get *that* idea from?

I don't think anybody outside of the company knows what the efficiency of the system is but even if it were 100% efficient (aLets be really optimistic and assume 10% ) you still have the inefficiency of the renewables you use and the infrastructure costs to set up.

The Navada 1 power plant cost nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and produces 64 MW compared to nearly 4,000 MW of the large coal powered Drax power station.

Yes there are economies of scale with time but sorry - this is never going to be cheap

[pdq1]

Even if it were possible consumers will never see it happen in their lifetimes. The reason being oil companies have so much to lose. The inventor will either we wiped out or be rewarded with such huge sums he could not refuse.

Years ago when smoking was rife an inventor brought out the everlasting match so saving the smoker of having to buy boxes of the little things. I wonder what happened there:

http://trove.nla.gov..../del/article/61566108

[jake-the-peg]

This is a very old urban myth about magical fuel systems surpressed by petrol companies with too much to lose.

The reality is the petrol companies are increasingly energy companies and will sell anybody any type of energy they can Petrol, Dielsel, LPG, hydrogen, artificial petrol whatever.

The fundamental issue is that energy is always difficult to obtain. It has to be mined or harvested or refined and transported and wholesaled and retailed. The safety of the systems has to be managed and inspected.

The world is full of fantasists telling you we could all have everything for free if it weren't for evil conspiracies - its very alluring - it's also very niaive

[modeller]

There is a vast amount of wasted/unusable power in the world. Power stations have to keep running throughout the night ( you can't close down huge boilers for short periods ) although the demand for electricity is very low . The same applies to wind and water power. It's available but there are few means of storing it. Making fuel from air or water is very inefficient but if the elecricity is free or cheap at night then it could be more of a proposition. Electric cars charged at night would be an example.
In Germany some families have been doing this for years .

[pdq1]

Yes modeller this video shows where liquid air is already being used. The inventor is seen using it in his car so it definately works. Just economies of scale at the moment

[BillyBB]

the guy has seen a way to latch onto the renewables subsidy scheme using straightforward but stupidly inefficient and long winded chemistry.

[beso]

jake-the-peg //This is a very old urban myth about magical fuel systems suppresed by petrol companies with too much to lose. //

Yes. A little appreciated aspect of patent law is that failure to implement the technology based on a patent is a path that allows other to take it up.

Moreover, patents don't last very long so there really is no effective way to stop a revolutionary technology though patent ownership.

Failure to develop technology from patents is not the result of suppression by vested interests but plain boring impracticality.