With poppy day coming up

[Snafu03]

Is it time to ponder Noam Chomskys quote?

'...the point of public relations slogans like "Support Our Troops" is that they don't mean anything - that's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about.'

I get why we should support our troops, but as per Chomsky this doesnt neccessarily mean that we support our governments policies. Can the two co-exist? Can we show support for our troops whilst not agreeing with why we are out in various theatres of war?

[friedgreentomato]

Yes, I support our troops, grew up in a forces family with family members in the RAF, Navy and army.

However I do not support some of the fields of operations at the moment.

[boxtops]

Ditto to Helen - and Poppy Day remember those who died to give us the freedom to have open minds.

[woofgang]

I fins it strange that you state that "you're not allowed to talk about" support for political policies. Do you not read the other questions here on answerbank, or the national papers?

The whole point of an apolitical military is that the two ARE separate. While individual soldiers of all ranks may vote and are allowed private views, they are not allowed to accept or refuse legitimate commands on the basis of their own views.

[FredPuli43]

Surely everybody supports our troops. Conscientious objectors would support our troops. The slogan is not 'support this war'. It's not a matter of judging the war or conflict they are in, or have been in, but of respecting anyone who is prepared to die or suffer injury in it and helping them or their families when they do. Afghanistan and Iraq are examples of conflicts in which, you may think, as I do, we should not have been involved, but that's not the fault of the men and women who were sent to fight in them.

[Kiki-frog]

Agree with FGT. I do support our troops, but I don't necessarily agree with what the government tells them to do.

[Snafu03]

not my words woof...I think what Chomsky is getting at is the government creates these slogans to avoid answering the real issue.

we of course can chatter about this between ourselves as long as we dont directly take the goverment to task over it.

[missnemesis]

we should not have been involved, but that's not the fault of the men and women who were sent to fight in them.

Agree 100% FP. Of course we can support our troops without supporting the wars in which they are involved. Perhaps if the politicians who make the decision to go to war had to fight then there would be far fewer conflicts.

[woofgang]

so no one ever votes or demonstrates? there are no TV programs made about the legitimacy of political decisions, no one can write to their MP/PM?

And you said that you agree with those words........

[Snafu03]

'And you said that you agree with those words........' ???
I dont agree with Chomsky. He is suggesting that if we subscribe to support our troops then that also means we dont question our government motives - which is wrong.

My comments are more related to what Chomsky is suggesting.

[Nibble]

That's always the niceity of sloganising/advertising, as the goal of the strap line can hid the actual message being received by the advertiser, i.e we ALL support Our Troops, as endorsed by the populace is actually received as we ALL support Your efforts. Which has no similarity to the actual wishes of the consumer of the campaign, i.e do they/don't they actually support the aims of the advertiser.

[woofgang]

okay, in that case no I don't think its time to ponder Noam Chomsky's quote.

[jno]

I think serving military have to take responsibility for their actions. One of the outcomes of the Nuremberg trials as I recall was that "I was just obeying orders" is not an excuse.

So you can say you don't support our troops if they're fighting a war you believe is wrong.

[woofgang]

Difficult one jno.....I don't think I'd refuse to donate to the poppy appeal on the grounds that I didnt think the army should be where it was, but yes, no one can abjure their personal responsibility to make moral decisions on the grounds that they were obeying an order.

[jomifl]

Regardless of the politics of any war in which our troops are involved I think that they deserve our unreserved support as they have no part in the choice of conflict.

[jake-the-peg]

//they deserve our unreserved support as they have no part in the choice of conflict. //

Many did

We have been fighting in Afghanistan for a decade - probably the majority of those fighting there were at school when it started.

Almost all will have known when they joined that they were going to fight in a war thousands of miles away against people who were no threat to the UK

They still chose to join up - they were not conscripted.

So they knew where they'd be going, they knew the "enemy" was of little threat to the UK (If not why are we all pulling out?), they knew that the war was unpopular

So why did they join up?

Little prosepects back home? (average qualifications are about 1 GCSE)

Chanc of Adventure? - better than stacking shelves!


Are these people *really* fighting for you?

I mean none of you actually seem to want them there!

[tonyav]

Oh I don't know jake, useful for burning the poppy field imo.