Another trial without Jury?

[youngmafbog]

http://news.sky.com/story/1017323/cyril-smith-late-mp-abused-young-boys

Once again we are alleging crimes against a dead defenceless person.

OK, he may be guilty, but I don't know that and neither do the Police. Just because they wold have passed to the CPS does not imply guilt, Plod do quite often get it wrong.

Do we need some sort of mechanism to have a 'trial by absence' before peoples names are dragged through the mud?

[whiskeryron]

It must be so easy now. I'm not saying this is how it happened but all you have to do is find someone who was famous who has now died & get in touch with the press & be willing to swear that the person took advantage of you some years ago & who knows there may be money in it.

WR.

[jake-the-peg]

Just as a matter of interest (no particular agenda here)

Do you feel that way about Jimmy Saville too?

[whiskeryron]

Jake, I am a little uneasy about the fact that it all kicked off after J/S had died, because you see there is no comeback, no one to argue. I know that supposedly things were said & reported to persons of authority at the time & I feel very strongly that there must have been something lacking that prevented extensive inquires being made at the time, has anything been put in place that could prevent anything like this happening again ?

WR.

[Booldawg]

maybe this is the answer to overcrowded prisons; convict people after they have died....

[ummmm]

Yes Ron. They have removed the sweep and the carpet.

[sandyRoe]

Did them up and display their heads on a spike near Westminster Bridge. That's what they did with Cromwells head years ago.

[Canary42]

So death exonerates does it ?

[jake-the-peg]

I don't think that's the point canary

I think the point is a dead person can't answer back, can't be libelled and in cases like this it's very distressing for the familly.

I asked about JS because of the sheer volume of accusations and the fact that the authorities like the Police made them.

I wondered if YMB and others would make a distinction when such a large number of charges were made, whether a seemingly massive number of cases justified it.

Of course in the JA case there are a number of inquiries which, true are not with jury, but at least bring some visible process to it.

[Canary42]

Point taken jake. But equally the dead can't use their powerful position to bully, threaten, and suppress innocent victims.

[ladybirder]

Eight separate allegations were made to the police in, I think it was 1970, and nothing was done, then more were made years later and again nothing was done. All this was before he died. I heard it on the TV this morning.

[jake-the-peg]

I thoink LadyBirder that's what's the real concern about the JS case.

Not so much his offenses - bad that they were but the fact that those allegations were not properly investigated.

Now the Police have changed a lot since the 70s and 80s and it may be that most of those shortcommings wouldn't happen now.

But it might be that there were more recent allegations that did not get the attention they should have and that would be a major issue.


There will always be predatory criminals of all sorts - we don't have a right to assume that risk will ever vanish

We do have a right to a police force that will professionally and efficiently investigate allegations of that kind whoever the accused might be

[jno]

these allegations were made when he was alive. Nobody could be bothered doing anything about them. But I can't see why the victims should be expected to shut up about them for the rest of their lives.

[youngmafbog]

Jake, yes I do; as I have previously posted.

As I say, we need some mechanism to try people who are dead, not just besmirch their names with no proven accusation.

I also dont believe in publishing the names of those who are being prosecuted but not yet found guilty.

[emmie]

the CPS had dropped this any number of times, the police however seem to have had lots of evidence that he was an abuser, so one has to question quite why the CPS chose not to pursue the matter, what is undue influence from politicians, those high enough up to pull strings, pretty much how the wretched Jimmy Savile case is unfolding.

[Hopkirk]

Does anyone seriously believe that Jimmy Savile and Cyril Smith are totally innocent?

We are not talking about a few pencils being nicked here, that can be forgotten about - there are damaged victims here and to ignore it just because the perpetrators have died would be wrong.

[emmie]

Hopkirk, couldn't agree more.

[sandyRoe]

When the CPS look at the available evidence and decide there's no realistic hope of a conviction they're leaving the suspect opportunities to commit similar crimes against other youngsters. If they were to bring the charge, even though they knew it would fail in court, they would at least have highlighted a potential threat to vulnerable youngsters.

[emmie]

also totally agree..

[Mamyalynne]

I remember the allegations at the time and as stated in the article, one reason the case was not carried forward was the so called 'reputation' and character of the young men involved.

What is being highlighted here is that, those issues should have been ignored and the whole thing taken more seriously. Something that hopefully would not happen today, hence the need sad though it is to dredge up old cases against the deceased.