Animal Activists

[Eleana]

I was just wondering if anyone here is part of an animal activist / rights group? i would like to join one but i dont know how to go about it.

[Dougie69]

Eleana, I'd like to say thank you for standing up for your beliefs and putting up a very strong case for animal rights. It's a pity no-one else on this string seems to bother about anything else on OUR planet other than us humans. We are all cohabitants and should treat all the other guests on earth with respect like the American Indians did before we wiped them out.

I hope you don't feel weakened by all these Sun reading sheep out there, but continue your fight against what we all know deep down is wrong.

For everyone who has slated Eleana, if you're so convinced that animal testing is acceptable, how many of you would willingly torture, kill and mutilate these animals if asked to do so ?

.

[lepers]

is it actually that these people condone the abuse of animals or is that in the face of infringement of basic human rights like the freedom to live with out fear that people are arguing for.

the majority of people probably agree that animal testing is not necessarily the best way to conduct medical experiments. would u rather they tested them on children in africa?

and as for complaining that all animal rights acitivists get tarred with the same brush then think about the people who work for the targeted organizations but do nothing more than office admin. these people are just trying to earn a living to support themselves and their families yet are treated with less respect than the men who raped the toddler. who gives these activists the right to prevent someone from earning an honest living?

it is the blatant double standard of these people which causes their cause to be ignored. they do not highlight the plight of the animal they highlight that of the victim.

[Eleana]

Dougie69...Thankyou for your post, its good to know that you feel the same. I do not feel weakended by these heartless people, just very sad that they seem to think that animals were put here for humans to use and apparantly have no objections to them being subjected to daily torture & agony because they ignorantly believe it benefits humans. Ideally one day all people will learn to respect animals as you and i do.

lepers, in response to your post;

the majority of people probably agree that animal testing is not necessarily the best way to conduct medical experiments. would u rather they tested them on children in africa?

No, this would be just as bad, but i have already pointed out in my previous posts that there are far more humane and reliable ways to test chemicals, drugs etc which do not involve suffering to animals or humans, please refer to my earlier posts for more information on these techniques.

[lepers]

not knowing the ins n outs of alternative testing methods, i imagine at some point some live testing is always necessary. do the setup and running cost of some of these systems potentially not make them unviable for many companies to use?

u didn't answer as to why people should be targetted by proxy for merely working at these organizations. it seems a bit extreme and unfair to target them or even their associates. the scare tactics used by some of the organizations are disgraceful, threatening to out them as a peadophile, threatening to inject them with a hiv infected needle in the street, daubing their homes, stealing family pets. these methods go far beyond legitimate protest. when people start infringing on peoples lives like these, preventing legitimate free labour, they are trying to destroy more people than those directly linked to the animal testing.

i get the reasons behind this, destroy others confidence in the target, make it impossible for them to work with the target, and as a result the target is forced out of business as it becomes too costly for their suppliers or sub-contractors. this is just patently wrong! these attempts to prevent people from going about their daily lives in nothing more than terrorism. something that can never be condoned. do u think it right that people were blown up on their way to work simply because a small band of people felt that had some supreme cause and as such justified in killing and maiming people they potentially had no fight against.

[lepers]

cont.

it sickens me to think that people in this country are prepared to act in such a vile manner and then have to audacity to claim the moral high ground. by condoning the actions of these people u condone all acts of terrorism and violence. attacking someone because they work for one of these organizations is no different to attacking someone for being gay or for their religion or the colour of their skin. you may say these people have a choice in where they work, that may be true, but some may have no other option than to do office work there or be unemployed. your aims might be noble but their methods are barbaric.

[Vivacia]

I've only just read this thread and was wondering why everyone (except Dougie) is having a go at eleana? from going by what she has wrote she wants to be in an animal rights group that protests about animal cruelty, yet everyone is banging on at her as if she is a terrorist even though she has plainly explained that she doesnt agree with car bombings and doesnt want to be part of a group that hurts people. Some people actually seem offended that she cares about animals!

Also I'd just like to know why some people think that animal abuse is not as bad as human abuse? Im of the same opinion as eleana that they are both as bad as each other.

[lepers]

eleana: that said, i don't have any sympathy for people who are attacked by activists, if they are people who inflict animal cruelty they should be punished.

i don't agree with animal testing and i don't like people who abuse animals. however i like even less people who march under the banner of animal rights when they merely seek to wreak havoc.

are these same people going out to turkey etc. to save the bears that are used for entertainment, are they going out to africa or asia to stop poaching? these are equally terrible abuses, yet some of these activists seem happy to remain in britain annonymously attacking what is 'legally' legitimate business.

[Eleana]

Vivacia... Thanks for your post, you are right - i want to to campaign for an end to all animal cruelty, yet people are acting like im the one in the wrong! i have said that i dont want to be part of a group that hurts people yet everyone is still accusing me of being a terrorist, i think either they havent read my posts properly or they are confused as to what a terrorist is.

Lepers, in response to your post;

do the setup and running cost of some of these systems potentially not make them unviable for many companies to use?

I do not know the actual costs myself but the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) who is the word's leading anti-vivisection campaigning organisation perform extensive research into alternative methods to animal testing and state the following with regards to non-animal research techniques; 'These techniques are not only more humane but also often cheaper and quicker to perform as well as offering more relevant and reliable results'.

[Eleana]

cont..

u didn't answer as to why people should be targetted by proxy for merely working at these organizations. it seems a bit extreme and unfair to target them or even their associates

I haven't said that these people should be targeted or have i condoned it in anyway and i cant answer for the people who do so why are you asking me this?

do u think it right that people were blown up on their way to work simply because a small band of people felt that had some supreme cause and as such justified in killing and maiming people they potentially had no fight against.

I am not aware that any animal rights group has done this so i am assuming you are referring to the July bombings in London? and, in answer to your question, no i definetly do not think it was right, it broke my heart to hear of all the innocent people who were killed & maimed just like it breaks my heart to know of all the innocent animals being killed & maimed in labs even as i am writing this.

[Eleana]

By saying that 'i do not have any sympathy for people attacked by activists if they are people who inflict cruelty on animals' does not make me a terrorist. It doesnt mean that would attack these people, it simply means that i cannot feel sympathy for people hurt if these are people who inflict hurt & suffering on others.

are these same people going out to turkey etc. to save the bears that are used for entertainment, are they going out to africa or asia to stop poaching? these are equally terrible abuses, yet some of these activists seem happy to remain in britain annonymously attacking what is 'legally' legitimate business.

There are animal rights supporters that do campaign in other countries but alot of people don't have enough money to travel abroad. I want to help animals wherever they are in the world and i donate to charities such as the WSPA that operate animal welfare projects worldwide.

And just to make clear once again, as most of you appear to have misinterprated my intentions - i want to help stop all animal cruelty and join a non-violent animal rights group. I do not condone terrosist actions in anyway.

[clair3934]

I do not like the idea of animal testing, but in this country it is medical testing not cosmetic, how many people use painkillers or inhalers etc and then join an animal rights organisation they are just not thinking about what they are doing we all use products that have been tested on animals at some point. I agree with Lepers I have heard of a person mearley delivering toilet roll to a reseach facility being threatend how daft is that.

The animals that are used in testing are bread specially for it to make them genetically as close to humans as possible so they could never be set free in the wild without causing trouble to our wild populations and to stop testing would mean killing and wasteing thousands of animals no one would be happy about that would they?

animals through history have only been used by humans, pack horses, hunting dogs etc this is why we have domestic dogs today we tamed them to hunt for us! research animals are no different did you know that our meat consumpton in the uk is 3 billion animals per year our research animal use in the uk is 2.7 million a damn site less and its gettng smaller every year. and from what I gather they are probably better looked after than most pet animals in the UK even if they do have a much shorter life

Eleana if you look properly on the internet there are plenty on oraganisations that you could join problem is they are millitant so I will not help you out by telling you who they are for your own good.

To finish I love my animals/animals in general but I also love my family and friends and if a mouse or rat being sacrified to save there lives someday is what it takes then so be it, for what they do those animals have just as big a place in my heart as my family,friends & pets do!

[Vivacia]

Clair, are you really stupid enough to believe that animals used for research have a better life then most uk pets? i think its either you have 0% knowledge on the subject or you are just fooling yourself.

[clair3934]

Vivacia I happen to have an awfull lot of knowledge on the subject I happen to know people who used to work in this area, I also was very much against it when I was young but as i grew up i did research of my own (not on animals) so that I could see both sides of the story animal rights people do not do this but perhaps if they did and protested in more peacefull ways they would get a lot more support. What I mean by the amnimals getting better care is these animals do not just get chucked out on to the streets after christmas or when they get to big, or start to cost to much money they get bedding food,water and environmentle enritchment for the duration of there lives they are given analgesia (painkillers) if they need them a vet is always on hand to prescribe/give medication and cost is of no consiquence if the animal needs it it gets it. they get better care than people in our NHS pipeline!! All people working in this area are highly skilled and have a lot of qulifications and experience and are very closely watched and regulated by the home office to ensure they do not inflict any unessesarey pain they are constantly striveing to reduce the amount of experiments they do and replace them with cell cultures, computer simulations etc. although many people do not like what they do I do feel that they help and have helped many people in the past, what we have to think off is what would this world we live in be like if we did not do the things that we did in the past these people have the best intentions at heart they are trying to save the human race you and me. I have to admit that animal rights have helped to ensure the welfare of these animals and improve regulations but attacking people is wrong no matter what they do for a liveing. But what will they protest about when testing is finished they are like parasites they need each other to servive

[lepers]

i apologise to u if u feel i have accused u of being part of one of the activist cells that do commit these crimes.

my point in all of this has been to highlight the fact that the work of these activists just detracts from the cause they are working for. they are faceless criminals who do not have the courage to stand up and be counted for what they believe, instead performimg clandestine terrorist acts.

i do not criticise ure beliefs, i feel strongly about animal welfare as well. i just feel as much as possible should be done to seperate the terms animal welfare campaingers and animal activists. as well as people working in animal welfare to 'out' those involved with these acts.

there are organisations like WSPA, which u mention, that do good work and have a much higher and more constructive profile. people should support these campaigners and not support the few who seek to cause so much destruction to property and lives.

[Vics]

Eleana, Dougie69 Vivacia and me - let's stand up and be counted !!!!! I cannot believe some of the disrespectful answers you have received Eleana when all you asked was about joining a group.Shame on the rest of you - not for your opinions (everyone is entitled to those) but for the disrespectful manner in which you have treated Eleana. Responses such as I hope you all get what is coming to you are not at all nice to fellow ABers.

In a nutshell - 6 months ago I felt like the majority of you in that I thought AA's equaled violence. I fostered a dog for 6 months from the RSPCA who rescued him in one of their biggest raids on a pet shop where dead cats and dogs were in the freezer. Knowing that he may have to go back to the pet shop (and no doubt his demise)if the case was lost, the local AA gave me the biggest emotional support and factual updates from the court hearing each day. At no time throughout the year long case did they resort to violence.

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." Go for it Eleana.!!!

[lepers]

then is that not the distinction then vics, as to the difference between activists and campaingners?

and in regards to the often mis-used quote, as to who the "good men" are depends on which side of the fence ure sitting.