Do Ministers Need The Support Of Those They Regulate?

[jake-the-peg]

The National Union of Teachers has unainimously passed a motion of no confidence against Michael Gove.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22002527

Does this matter?

If those who teach have no confidence in the minister in charge, or those in the NHS have no confidence in the health secretary or if the City has no confidence in the chancellor can they continue to function effectively?

[emmie]

why is it a surprise that the NUT have no confidence in him, not because he is useless but because he's a Tory. In an ideal world one should have the support of those you control, oversee, govern, but then we know that doesn't always happen. I mean i never liked one boss i had, in fact i would go so far as to say he was a horrible man, and a useless boss. I put up with it for a time as he was in charge, but i didn't have to like him.

[Sqad]

\\\\The National Union of Teachers has unainimously passed a motion of no confidence against Michael Gove. \\\\

Well.......what a surprise.

\\\Does this matter? \\

It would be nice if the Unions agreed with the Minister, but we elected a Government to govern....not the Unions.

For over half a century i have witnessed strikes by Union workers, mineworkers, railway workers, teachers etc etc but life goes on...or seems to.

The function of the union leaders is to get the best deal for their members (to which they have succeeded) and the function of the government to pass bills which in their opinion are needed.

Does the city have no confidence in the Chancellor? It depends upon to whom one talks in the City.

[society]

"Do Ministers Need The Support Of Those They Regulate?"

Oi you, saw the headline in the grey box and thought you were after preachers, pastors and imam etc.

[youngmafbog]

No, I don't think they do at all.

Generally people do not like change (Re the Luddites for extreme examples of this) so this vote from them and others going through change is hardly surprising.

As for the City and the Chancellor, I think you will find they generally hated Brown far more. But again, did that matter or stop Brown from doing what he thought was best? No of course not, and it should not.

[DangerUXD]

Union votes against a Tory minister shocker! PMSL
It's nice to have support but not necessary and no union is ever going to cooperate with a Tory anyway. If you are not cranking up the marxist unions then you aren't doing your job.

[jake-the-peg]

There is a difference in this case though isn't there

This isn't based on pay or working conditions or redundancy - this isn't due to the union leaders supporting the conditions of their members.

This is based on someone who is not a teacher dictating teaching to professional educationalists

A bit like Oh say having a historian running the treasury or a PR consultant running the NHS (oh hush my mouth!)


It's not just the left leaning NUT though is it?

100 education professors wrote an open letter to Michael Gove in the Telegraph criticizing his curriculum

More importantly

Russell Hobby, general secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers said '“Government risks sacrificing the engagement of the teaching profession in order to score cheap political points, Yet that engagement is the only thing that can make a new curriculum work.



As a manager I know that introducing change without the support of those that need to effect it is difficult - with their outright hostillity it's damn near impossible


Or is there a big band of professional teachers cheering for Michael Gove, eager to carry out his 'pub quiz' curriculum that I've missed?

[DangerUXD]

So besides crossing the floor is there any conceivable thing that Gove could do that would induce support from the union?

I take you point generally but this is just the unions bashing a Tory, that's what they do.

[emmie]

does he have to be an ex teacher, or head to do the job, no one asks other ministers if they know anything about overseas matters or finance, or indeed being PM, whether one has the right qualifications. it's down to who gets put in the post, and what they make of the job. I think he was on the right track, however he is up against not just the heavyweight union, but those in opposition, who don't like him one bit. Change for them seems to be anathema, trying to improve the children's lot, by not making this too easy, because unfortunately we have seen what children who underachieve get up to, or with those sorts of qualifications that have no value in the real world. They are having to compete as you as well as i know, in a very competitive market, so if they come out of school not being able to spell or string two sentences together, then we just have more young people on the dole, or working in very low paid jobs, if they can get them.

[pdq1]

Learning by rote produced the top academics and leaders of industry we now have. If this system were flawed we would never have achieved the status this country had. Since the new teaching methods this country has slipped down the world rankings and children leave school without being able to do minor sums or complete a sentence. Maybe the NUT are now mostly made up from new academics who never went through their early years in learning by rote.

[youngmafbog]

Jake, as a manager who went through posting jobs to Bombay and sacking most of the on-shore staff I know that change can be acheived without the consent of the workforce. It's quite simple, be on board and you will be one who stays, try to undermine it you will be first out the door. Oh, I forgot. The civil service doesn't know how to sack someone does it hence the fistfuls(but not all before you leap on that) of lazy useless teachers we have in place holding back our kids.

As for a big bank of teaching 'professionals' cheering for Gove, highly unlikely given that majority of teachers are lefty Guardian readers.

Therefore are you seriously saying that no policy should be adopted unless the Guardian and Independent types endorse it?

[emmie]

i have listened to Mr Gove in interviews, and read some articles about him, he comes across as a very sensible, down to earth man, who wants to do the best job possible, he is somewhat hampered however, by the lib dems, who are in pretty much the same mode as the guardianistas,

[modeller]

The NUT was always the most militant and left wing of the teacher unions.
Their reps are always the most stroppy of the teachers they supposedly represent. Most teachers don't want the job .
When Labour destroyed our grammar schools and imposed those bog standard one size fits all comprehensives it was the NUT who were the greatest supporters. It was the NUT who virtually banned competition in schools , no one was allowed to fail.

[emmie]

and haven't we seen the fall out from that hubris.

[Quizmonster]

"Having a historian running the treasury or a PR consultant running the NHS."
Nice point, Jake.
If any one of us were forming a government and (a) grasped the importance of the Chancellorship and (b) had many colleagues with substantial business and financial experience around us, who would we choose as Chancellor?
Well, if we were David Cameron, the answer is obvious...our pal with a Second-Class degree in History and work-experience involving little more than towel-folding!

When in opposition, the Tories constantly whined on that the Government should listen to the doctors, teachers or whatever other profession was complaining about the situation affecting the members. Why does that never seem to apply now that they are in government?