Rumania/Romania

[David H]

When I was at school (not so long ago really) we spelt it exclusively Rumania. Now we're told we have to use their spelling for it (Romania), but when and why did this change happen?

[jno]

I think this is one of these words with no correct spelling. Some even use Roumania. As the word recalls its place in the Roman empire, Romania's probably sensible enough.

[bernardo]

As far as I know, it has always been Romania. "Rumania" is simply a misprint.

[David H]

Bernardo, what's the point of coming on with observations like that based on your own apparent sense of humour.

If you simply open any map more than 30 years old you'll see it in black and white. That is how it was spelt, until one day it wasn't. Simple question, if you don't have the answer there's no need to come in and put in your two cents.

[jno]

I have a 30-year-old map; it's spelt Romania. Other maps of similar age may well have different spellings. It's usually a matter of house style; publishers make up their own minds which spelling they will use when there's a choice. The usage of the country itself is only one factor; nobody calls Albania Shqiperia in English. Some maps show Burma; others show Myanmar. Usages only become 'wrong' if you use them and nobody knows what you're talking about. Nobody has the authority to 'tell' us what spelling to use.

[CheekyChops]

I have to stick up for Bernardo...I am well over 30 yrs old and have always been taught to spell it Romania and have never seen any map with any other spelling.

[dzug]

Pears Cyclopedia for 1985 gives Romania with Rumania in brackets

An American encyclpaedia I have (1975) gives Rumania with Romania in brackets

Stanley Gibbons stamp catalogue 1997 spells in Rumania with no alternative - but the stamps have always had Romania on.

You takes yer choice...

[jno]

the stamps are the giveaway - the Romanians have always called it Romania. Which means, basically, that bernardo is right, and certainly doesn't deserve to be snapped at because he's given an answer to a question. The spelling in English seems to be coming round to the Bucharest way of thinking. Or perhaps Bucuresti.

[Octavius]

Princess Marie of Edinburgh, later Queen of Romania used to write Roumania in her correspondence to the UK at the turn of the 19/20th century. Although it is Romania, it was formerly known as Rumania and Roumania.

From the 16th C onwards, Romanian documents used both forms: Rom�n and Rum�n, with the latter being the more common form. It was only in the 19th century, with the rise of nationalism that the form Rom�n was adopted as an official spelling, being chosen over Rum�n in order to emphasise the linguistic connection to ancient Rome.

[David H]

The points are

1) If my Phillips map from 1969 only has Rumania then that was what I learnt at school and trusted totally

2) Swiss have Helvetia on stamps, Hungary has Magyar, Germany Deutschland etc etc. this only relates to local use and not British.

3) I think Octavius has provided the answer but it's clearly one only settled in the last couple of decades.

[David H]

and ps I only got annoyed with Bernardo as if you ask for a factual answer giving one clearly not researched (viz my map and many others) doesn't help at all, and I know Bernardo usually does check first.

[jno]

regarding local usage, English speakers use English names for foreign countries - Germany not Deutschland and so on. But that applies when the whole name is different. When it's just the spelling that's different, it's more a matter of personal taste. Phillips used Rumania, but it's not necessarily the case that other publishers did the same. As I said, I have a 30-year-old map - Rand McNally - that says Romania. The Romanians' own spelling has long been settled. I suspect British publishers are just catching up - but it will be one by one, not because anyone has told them to do it, or because there is an 'official' English spelling.

[bernardo]

What's the point of asking a question if you don't like the answers that you get? My initial answer was entirely truthful and accurate. In an entire lifetime of 8537 years, I have only very rarely seen it being spelled with a u instead of an o, and therefore it is reasonable to presume that the pweople who write it with a u are simply making a mistake or a misprint. My answeer was fully researched in the sense that I was referring to a lifetime of memories cluttering the inside of my brain.

[David H]

That was how it appeared bernardo, as it disagreed with the actual literature which does seem to pick the U or O version at random until about the 80s I thought you may just have come in to muck around.

As I was given a similar response myself by someone for daring to spell it with a U, as if there was only the one way, I wanted to know why he felt so strongly as as far as I'm concerned that's the relatively new way of spelling it here. Lucky I never mentioned Holland...

[bernardo]

You made me curious, so I googled:

Romania : 117,000,000 references
Rumania : 3,380,000
Roumania : 3,190,000

[David H]

That is interesting, now I want to know what they'd have found in 1970!

[bernardo]

If the internet had existed in 1970, it would probably have been guugle or gougle

[mitch1340]

Being of Romanian origin, I might offer some insight on this question. We Romanians of late find the spelling "Rumanian" or "Rhumanian" somewhat offensive, just as the word negro, colored or even ****** would be to an African-American, however socially acceptable those terms might have been in the past. Those alternative spellings are mostly used by people of Hungarian origin in an attempt to mock the Romanian peoples' claim to Roman descendancy. Likewise, I would not be surprised to learn that Romanians have some derrogatory terms in reffering to Hungarians as there seems to be some level of animosity between the two nations.