What incites racial hatred ?

[vehelpfulguy]

So the two BNP members have been found not guilty of inciting race hate, but may face a retrial.

But what incites race hate ?

The other night I watched Crimewatch which featured CCTV film of a car with 4 asian men in it. As the police approached the car they sped off, nearly hitting one of the policemen.

As the car sped away they threw a MACHINE GUN out the window. The police had it in the studio, a lethal looking thing it was.

Who on earth needs to take a machine gun out with you if you are driving around, unless you are up to big trouble.

Later in the show it featured a crime where some black men machine gunned a car and killed one of the people in it.

Actions like THAT are far more likely to stir up race hate than a cartoon in a newspaper or the BNP (or anyone else) talking at a meeting.

It certainly incited a race hate in me.

Read about it here:

<A target='_blank' href=&quot;http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/crimewatch/appeals.shtml& quot;>http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/crimewatch/appeals.s html</A>

[Oneeyedvic]

On the basis that the people machine gunning the car and the only person named on crimewatch link were black, i don't see how you can call 'black on black' killing racist?

Or maybe I am missing the point?

[Bluemukka]

I understand to an extent that you had to qualify your arguement by describing the people in terms of race but this is far too simplistic IMHO.

I think it has more to do with "culture" that race. How these people live their lives and what values they place on things has little to do with what colour skin they have.

I take it you would feel racial hatred for the man who abducted the little girl from her bath and sexually assaulted her? Here's hoping he's not black or asian because you'll end up hating the majority of the UK, including yourself (I presume, if not accept my apologies). Don't be so quick as to tar eveyone with the same brush.

[Bluemukka]

Sorry, should read

**Here's hoping he IS black or asian...**

[bill barlow]

Your point is very valid bluemukka, but in my experience race and culture are normally intertwined, but not allways I agree

[Goodsoulette]

If these actions had been carried out by a white man would you have felt racial hatred towards all white people, probably not. Stop banding everyone together, There are good and bad in every culture, you cant hate people because a few do something bad and the only way you can differentiate yourself from them is by race or culture, its wrong. Judge everyone on an idividual basis.

The BNP are a bunch of ignorant trouble makers. My boyfriends brother once came back from the pub with a bunch of their leaflets talking about how they made sense and he was going to join them, i read them and they were disgusting, obviously dreamt up by some blood thirsty uneducated idiot. They prey on the stupid and as most of the BNPs followres are normally this I think its very apt that they spread their evil propoganda in cartoon form.

[sp1814]

Some interesting points raised here - veryhelpfulguy...if the stories had been about white criminals, would you have had the same reaction?

Do you think perhaps that these stories back up pre-conceived ideas you have about black and Asian men?

I'm not accusing you of racism...just interested in your thought process.

[noxlumos]

As far as crime goes in Britain the most likely perpetrator for a crime overall is a young black male, which all the race haters yell about on a frequent basis, attempting to denegrate an entire race with that statistic. What they miss, or choose to ignore are other social factors attached to that group, such as higher levels of unemployement, poorer exam passes, more prevalent social deprivation of other kinds etc, and the fact that much of that crime is perpetrated against their own communities.

Race hate occurs in cycles with the most recent significant immigrant population in the country taking the brunt of it. At the moment it's Albanians and Eastern Europeans, prior to this Asian and Black people, prior to that Germans, prior to that Irish and Jews etc etc it goes on.

It is a tragic fact of life that the great British public are prone to blame their misfortunes on whoever came here last, and the point I am making is that lack of knowledge causes race hate far more than anything else.As soon as a culture assimilates better into British society the more readily they are accepted.

If you want to reduce race hate you have to close the socio-economic divide so that you no longer get ghetto areas consisting almost primarily of one racial group who find themselves disadvantaged, whilst other areas are almost exclusively white.We have to integrate better, most racism is very subtle and barely noticeable, but it has a huge social impact overall.

[ARSENAL]

I am quite glad that the BNP fellas 'got off' with what they said. I think it is a victory for freedom of speech. Surely if you live in a multi-cultural society (i.e. if you are a muslim living in Britain) acceptance plays a big part in that. They have to accept that we have freedom of speech / a democracy - in fact if we didn't then alot of them would not be here in the first place. We have to accpet their mosques and religious holidays and how they go on afterall.

However we ALL should not accept people roaming the streets buying / selling / taking drugs, and walking around with guns and such like. Surely any peoples / religion or creed wouldn't (and shouldn't) accept that. Alot of these arguements end up being based around race or religon etc. Surely EVERYONE who chooses to make this country their home should be more concerned with the crime and the violence that is going on.

[Goodsoulette]

Freedom of Speech is all well and good but then how often do people use it in a productive way. I could walk about shouting death to all Arsenal fans, and handing out propaganda that encourages people to discriminate and drive fans of such a low rate football team out of the country, or make up lies about how they live there lives and that all of them wanted to eat your newborn children, but would that be right. No!!!

Freedom of speech is something BNP supporters throw out all the time, and bloody well makes me mad.

[sp1814]

Arsenal

Totally agree with you on the whole issue of people running around with guns, selling drugs etc. Hopefully the vast, vast, vast majority of well brought up, well educated Asians and black people in this country will become role models for the scummy feral kids who we see roaming about the streets with their cans of Special Brew, their flick knives and suchlike.

Listen, I want all the white people who think that the black muggers and rapists are in any way representative of us as a race to think about this:

Over the past few years, we've seen a large number of newspaper stories about paedophiles. Nearly every one is white. In fact, I can't remember ever seeing a story about a black or Asian paedophile. Would you as a white person think it fair to be associated with them? Even though they are totally not representative to your race?

Seriously - get some common sense before posting.

I refer to

[jimmer]

Well VHG you seem to follow similar warped lines of arguments to the BNP. Because their arguments are carefully crafted to appeal to racist bigots like yourself, i would say that their arguments do occasionally influence some stupid people to accept their racism rather than question it and this cannot be a good thing. Your counter argument as to the cause of racist views is easier to deal with because it is simply racist. So to sum up. Your question brings us no closer to establishing any facts other than the reason your household is interested in issues of race hate is because you are racist.

jim

[:Ace:]

When Abu Hamza used to stand outside his mosque and incite racial hate, the police would stand next to him and do nothing. Suddenly, the BNP do it and they're prosecuted.

This country is going down the drain pipe. Our justice systems are clearly unjust.

[ploughman]

The difference with the influx of Islam into this country, compared to the immigration of other racial groups is a) the sheer numbers involved in relation to the time scale, b) the audacious assumption that it is we who should integrate with them and not vice versa, c) the hideous views and practices, particularly those involving women and children, which we appear to be expected not just to tolerate, but to fully endorse with our approval.

Not far from where I live is a community of Hasidic jews who have their own shops restaurants etc. Do you ever hear of such people ranting on and on about their religion, culture or how the rest of the population treats them? No, they just get on with their lives, eat Kosher meat and worship in their synagogues. Their dress and customs are just as distinctive as other ethnic groups, yet they are totally integrated into British society. Still very different, but British.

The BNP stipulate that they do not hate any ethnic group. However they do hate the WHITE POLITICIANS who have allowed our society to descend to the level we have today. Immigration is totally out of control, even many immigrants themselves attest to this, and as long as this situation endures, groups like the BNP will continue to draw support from those who feel threatened.

[Suuz]

Sorry this is very late but have to make this point Ploughman since when have Jews not 'ranted on' about their religion? (your words). You're thrown in a cell, if you so much as mention the Haulocaust let alone draw cartoons of it.It is a felony to make anti-semetic remarks, etc. Cherie Blair had to make an official apology, and she did, where were the 'Freedom of Speech' demonstrators then?

Anyway I think that this arguemnt is getting old, and has completely gone of the subject. Sorry vehelpfulguy.