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Any Experience Of Coroner's Courts?
Not so much a question as a 'sharing'...
I have recently needed to venture into the world of death and inquests and found it an odd place.
Someone I had a close but indirect connection with tragically died recently at the age of 32. I saw on Facebook that her death was 'sudden and unexpected' but I am unable to contact the family in person to get any further information.
Of course, there is no national database of Deaths; other than Death Certificates over 6 months old. So I rang about 10 Registrars' offices in and around London to ask if she was 'in their system'. They were helpful and i soon realised that a 'sudden and unexpected' death could well be in the hands of a Coroner and therefore unknown to any Registrar.
Of course, the Coroners are a completely different set up with different regions and boundaries, so I telephoned the several Coroners' offices in and around London. All were helpful until I contacted the office who were actually handling the case. Whilst I appreciated they wouldn't reveal details over the phone, they were unwilling to even confirm that this particular case was in 'their system' and I had the phone put down on me.
A redial and 15 minutes of cajoling a different officer did work. It turned out that he was the Case Officer and he has subsequently been helpful to the point of agreeing to tell me when the Inquest is scheduled; because although the Public and the Press are entitled to attend any Inquest, there is no advance notice of the Inquest for those not immediately involved other than a piece of paper pinned up in the Court foyer that morning.
My overall point is that while I respect the need for sensitivity regarding the Next of Kin, I would have assumed that the process of dealing with a sudden death needed to be particularly 'Open and Transparent'.
In reality, unless one already knows where a death has occurred and can convince the Coroner's officers that one has some particular connection; they will reveal nothing - not even confirming the Death has occurred.
It seemed odd to me - anyone else got any insights into the arcane world of the Coroner's Court?
I have recently needed to venture into the world of death and inquests and found it an odd place.
Someone I had a close but indirect connection with tragically died recently at the age of 32. I saw on Facebook that her death was 'sudden and unexpected' but I am unable to contact the family in person to get any further information.
Of course, there is no national database of Deaths; other than Death Certificates over 6 months old. So I rang about 10 Registrars' offices in and around London to ask if she was 'in their system'. They were helpful and i soon realised that a 'sudden and unexpected' death could well be in the hands of a Coroner and therefore unknown to any Registrar.
Of course, the Coroners are a completely different set up with different regions and boundaries, so I telephoned the several Coroners' offices in and around London. All were helpful until I contacted the office who were actually handling the case. Whilst I appreciated they wouldn't reveal details over the phone, they were unwilling to even confirm that this particular case was in 'their system' and I had the phone put down on me.
A redial and 15 minutes of cajoling a different officer did work. It turned out that he was the Case Officer and he has subsequently been helpful to the point of agreeing to tell me when the Inquest is scheduled; because although the Public and the Press are entitled to attend any Inquest, there is no advance notice of the Inquest for those not immediately involved other than a piece of paper pinned up in the Court foyer that morning.
My overall point is that while I respect the need for sensitivity regarding the Next of Kin, I would have assumed that the process of dealing with a sudden death needed to be particularly 'Open and Transparent'.
In reality, unless one already knows where a death has occurred and can convince the Coroner's officers that one has some particular connection; they will reveal nothing - not even confirming the Death has occurred.
It seemed odd to me - anyone else got any insights into the arcane world of the Coroner's Court?
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Coroners - awful people - I have met a few
This seems like par for the course, mixed is with 'data protection' which nowadays doesnt allow diddly squat.
They are governed by statute old 1888 coroners' act and I think it is now 1988 coroners' act. This gives them a surprising degree of independence.
Their duty is to find out who has died, what they died from and how they came by their deaths.
They have absolutely no duty to you or me whatsoever which gives you the reason why some people are so unhelpful. The inquests are public and that is satisfied by the bit of paper outside the court.
The proceedings are inquisitorial and there is no prosecution and defence
which means that no one has a right to be heard and ask questions - besides the coroner of course.
what insight it should give you is that the mixture of independence and intransigence explains without any other thing needed how such a cock up such as Hillsborough came about
This seems like par for the course, mixed is with 'data protection' which nowadays doesnt allow diddly squat.
They are governed by statute old 1888 coroners' act and I think it is now 1988 coroners' act. This gives them a surprising degree of independence.
Their duty is to find out who has died, what they died from and how they came by their deaths.
They have absolutely no duty to you or me whatsoever which gives you the reason why some people are so unhelpful. The inquests are public and that is satisfied by the bit of paper outside the court.
The proceedings are inquisitorial and there is no prosecution and defence
which means that no one has a right to be heard and ask questions - besides the coroner of course.
what insight it should give you is that the mixture of independence and intransigence explains without any other thing needed how such a cock up such as Hillsborough came about
Well, you don't know that a case is listed in the High Court unless you have access to the overnight lists , that is involved in the case, or go in every day to see what is on display in the hall for that day or, later on, the next day.
The Coroner's court is odd though because nobody has an automatic right to be heard or ask any questions. The system is inquisitorial, with only the Coroner deciding what questions are asked and who, apart from the Coroner can ask them.
The Coroner's court is odd though because nobody has an automatic right to be heard or ask any questions. The system is inquisitorial, with only the Coroner deciding what questions are asked and who, apart from the Coroner can ask them.
The system was neatly summarised by a colleague after I returned from my first inquest. I was appearing for the trade union whose member had been involved in a fatal accident. My friend asked "How did you get on?" I replied " Well, I managed to establish that the man was dead", to which he replied "Good result!"
Freddie - hi again ! [PP waves again]
The IRA lawyer in the Gibraltar inquest
you know - the one where the lawyer asks the undercover SAS man, why did you shoot the IRA man 19 times and he replies - because I ran out of bullets....yeah that one
at one point says:
all this inquest is gonna establish is that these people are dead -
but we know that anyway.....
The IRA lawyer in the Gibraltar inquest
you know - the one where the lawyer asks the undercover SAS man, why did you shoot the IRA man 19 times and he replies - because I ran out of bullets....yeah that one
at one point says:
all this inquest is gonna establish is that these people are dead -
but we know that anyway.....
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