The Moon, the Earth and the Sun.

[Outdoorsman]

Is the Earth pulling away from the Sun - and is the Moon pulling away from the Earth, gradually distancing themselves from each other?

Were they all closer together in the far distant past?

I've read a lot of the previous answers to similar questions and I'm under the impression that The Universe is a Giant Snooker Table, set up by some "Intellegent Designer" who's having a laugh at our expense!

Tom.

[Reggy]

Im no Astronomer, but i was under the impression that the planets in our solar system all orbit around the Sun. The moon is not one of those, it orbits around the Earth. I don't think that the Earth is pullin away from the sun, but im not 100% sure!

Overall the universe is expanding, supposedly at the speed of light - pretty fast!! Originally, the planets would have been made up from lots of bits from exploding stars, which started to stick together over millions of years. This is just off the top of my head, so it's prob not right.

Also, I think that everything within the universe moves because of the attraction to other objects. Would be good to hear an answer from someone with a lot more knowledge...

[fo3nix]

Reggy's right, we're not moving away from the Sun.

Well, at some points in the year we kind of are: our orbin around the Sun isn't perfectly circular, but is pretty much enough to take it as a circle. But it does mean that at a few points in the year, we're slightly moving away from the Sun. But not generally.

The same goes for the Moon too.

[JustSia]

It's funny, when I was back at school our teacher told us that because of the gravitaional forces the Moon was falling into the Earth and Earth into the Sun.

Needless to say he was completely wrong. Some often use centrifuge forces to demonstrate it, however it is much more complicated than that.

Hope this helps a bit.

http://www.answers.com/topic/tidal-acceleration

S.

[Clanad]

Actually, recent models of the formation of the Moon estimate that it formed at a distance
of about 12,500 to 20,000 miles from Earth. The Moon is currently about 240,000 miles from Earth. That means Early in the Moon's history, it was about 12-20 times closer to Earth than it is now.(Source: The Mad Scientist). Additionally, we do know from exact measurements that the moon is receding from the Earth at about 3.8 cm per year. (The Earth's rotation is also slowing by miniscule but steady amounts each year).
One significanct result of this is that in the early history of the Earth, tides at that time must have been in excess of 5,000 feet...
The Earth (and other planets) are the same distance from the Sun as when they first formed from debris that was in orbit around the Sun. They remain at the same distance due to their mass, whereas the moon formed (possibly because of an near-Earth size meteor's or comet's collision with Earth, quite early on). The resultant debris remained in orbit around the Sun and "coagulated" (my term) as the Moon, as the Earth reformed itself in its present mass and orbit...

[Outdoorsman]

Thanks folks.

I have another question...

But it'll keep until Wednesday.

[jake-the-peg]

I think what you may be referring to is the Milankovitch cycle.

There are variations in the earth's orbit and angle of inclination. (other planets too)

There is a quite strong 100,000 year cycle which seems to match the frequency of ice ages quite well

Right now the earth's orbit is quite circular at between 94.5 and 91 million miles (3% variation) but it can be double this or nearly zero

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycle

[JudgeJ]

There are lots of forces at work within the Solar System which cause the distances between various bodies to vary. Some of them have already been mentioned.

As far as the Earth-Moon relationship goes, the moon�s orbit (in common with most heavenly bodies) is elliptical, so its distance from the earth varies over the course of a lunar month simply because of this. However, in the much longer term the moon is definitely moving away from the earth and clanad provides information to support this. This is caused by the tidal effect the moon has upon the earth which distorts its shape from spherical and slows its rate of rotation. Eventually the earth will become tidally locked with the moon. Its period of rotation (currently 24 hours) will eventually equal the period of the moon's orbit around the earth (currently 28 days) with the result that the same part of the earth will always face the moon. (This has already happened to the moon).

As this is happening the Earth's rotation is gradually being slowed down by the Moon, and the Moon is slowly receding from Earth as Earth's rotational momentum is transferred to the Moon's orbital momentum.

Also, Outdoorsman, be careful! The teaching of "Intelligent Design" has recently been ruled illegal in the USA !!! I wouldn't like to hear that you'd been carted off to Guantanamo Bay !!!

[JustSia]

JudgeJ, not exactly (re 'Intelligent Design')

It was not ruled illegal in the US. As a matter of fact Bush is a devoted Intelligent Design follower.

Pennsylvania, has a very strong Evangelical Christian following and was one of the first states to introduce Intelligent Designs to the schools' curriculum. Evangelicals completely oppose idea of evolution and question modern science in general. That is why they have substituted science lessons with Intelligent Design. However, it has been since ruled "unconstitutional" and the teaching of Intelligent Design was banned from schools in Pennsylvania.

Still Intelligent Design is very much legal (as long as you don't teach it in States schools), alive and growing and I believe its followers are going to appeal the decision. And ,hey, if the President supports it, you never know, it might just make it back to schools.

S.

[JudgeJ]

Let's hopenot because the next thing you'll know is that it will gain favour here.

[jake-the-peg]

And here we were in Europe thinking that the patient was making a recovery!

[JustSia]

H he he, I think Blair has already caught the bug. He's been throwing the G word left right and centre recently.

S.

[jake-the-peg]

Blair did once try to end a party political broadcast with the words "God bless you all". His PR people went nuts and told him under no circumstances was he to even think of doing it. He called them "a godless bunch" but he very wisely took their advice

[JustSia]

Jake, did you watch that program last night on 4 about the Evangelicals in the UK? Scary stuff.

They named 3 schools in the NE where teachers openly advertised their Intelligent Design views. Although still teaching evolution, they made sure the students knew that they believed in the literal meaning of the Bible. Blair was questioned regarding that in the Parliament. His response was that he thought it was a good idea and that it obviously worked considering how well the 2 of those schools were doing (3rd one is fairly new).

All in all it was a complicated issue but the fact remains, what will our government close their eyes on as long as they get good statistics?

S.

[jake-the-peg]

Sounds like a job for OFSTED to me rather than one for the Government.

OFSTED refused to reinspect the school in 2002 saying they were satisfied with answers they got in a letter!

I've just read their OFSTED report and can't believe what I've seen. I've seen a few of these in my time but nothing like this - it's nothing short of fawning.

It was performed by Westminster Education consultants.who were bought in 2001 by VT technologies Oh look Baroness Tessa Blackstone is on the board of VT wasn't she minister for Education up to 2001?

How cosy!

[JustSia]

Thanks for the bed time reading Jake. Looking forward to a bit of fiction.

I honestly don't have anything against RE in secondary schools. It's nice for the kids to have an understanding about all kinds of religions. And they are old enough to make their own minds about it. But I found out last month that my daughter was taught how God made Earth and Men and so on. And she is only 5. What does she know? And I have a hell of a time afterwards trying to explain to her that it is not necessarily the truth but something some people believe in like fairytales. This was in the reception class of a state school. Long story there, but how could you possibly argue with them. It's just frustrating. But it looks like I don't have much say since I am in an atheist minority.

S.