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Help, Please Re The Mail
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Is there something irrelevant in that Daily Mail report ? What ,if anything is it, and why is it there?
Is there something irrelevant in that Daily Mail report ? What ,if anything is it, and why is it there?
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@naomi
//Hypognosis, I didn’t say you were disrespectful
Correct, you didn't. That was aimed at AOG, who'd responded to what I'd said, using that adjective. I bundled that onto my reply to you without clearly labelling that it was aimed at someone else. Seemes to happen on AB all the time but apologies for this instance.
//– I defended you against that accusation.
Thanks.
//Yes, £17,000 a year is a lot of money
I have had a salary not much above that, in the no-longer-recent past. (Dis)Colours my viepoint to a great extent.
//but most people who send their children to private school do not regard it as ‘disposable income’ – it’s a good chunk of what they see as their living expenses//
It's still an -option- the way I look at it. State schools are available.
Okay, so I'm 30 years out of touch with what schools are like and mine had the advantage of being staffed largely by the same teachers as when it was a grammar school, so I still got to Uni in the end.
//Many parents – mums and dads - work all the hours available to them in order to pay it, they often voluntarily forego life’s ‘luxuries’, //
Voluntarily, yes. Like I said, it's a life option. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads to make them do this.
//and it may surprise you to learn that in order to help the parents who are struggling to pay the fees many private schools organise sales of second-hand uniforms and equipment. //
Well done them!
//Private schools do offer a better start in life//
Confession!!
// – as do grammar schools //
I certainly had the benefit. Conversion to comprehensive is just an inconvenient detail which requires careful explanation in my CV which most employers would probably overlook.
// – and I don’t criticise anyone for doing the best they can for their children.//
Me neither but if they collectively stopped being so ludicrously competitive, sent their kids to state school like the rest of us and we let the provate schoold go out of business then we wouldn't end up with this two-tier society.
I'm talking nonsense of course. See that piece about South Korean kids doing 10-14 hour days, to make sure they make the grade? We're going to have to become like that, in order not to get overtaken on the world stage.
//That’s not entirely fair – and actually it smacks of sour grapes. //
The DM article was the one laying on with a trowel about how special he was. I merely restated that, in a somewhat exaggerated manner so that I could question how, if this was the case, he could be allowed (by friends and family) to wander off in a vulnerable state.
//The fact that this boy was a student at a private school doesn’t make him any more ‘precious’ than any other boy //
Quite so. This thread began by others questioning why the DM made such a story about this individual and asking would they have done the same about a kid from the comprehesive? I was just jumping on the bandwagon, somewhat late.
//- but you didn’t have it so no one else should, is that it?
Fair point. The argument in favour of equality inexorably heads towards the one-size-fits-all solution but sharing resources around equally (financially and in terms of teacher quality) dilutes the boost provided by the redistibuted high-quality staff from the private schools. Uniformity would be achieved but the level may only be 102%, 103% of current State schools' performance.
Catch me on any other day and I'll be arguing in favour of elitism. I also had to suffer the annoying kids at the back of the class who'd disrupt the lesson. Words like 'nerd' or 'geek' were not in use at the time and I was not a 'swot', didn't study academic stuff on my own time, so deeply resented being treated like one. That's the part of me which still insists that the brightest kids be hived off to somewhere where they're spared all that hassle or, at the very least, given special lessons to boost their social skills and build a skin thick enough to deal with the roughness of real life.
//Hypognosis, I didn’t say you were disrespectful
Correct, you didn't. That was aimed at AOG, who'd responded to what I'd said, using that adjective. I bundled that onto my reply to you without clearly labelling that it was aimed at someone else. Seemes to happen on AB all the time but apologies for this instance.
//– I defended you against that accusation.
Thanks.
//Yes, £17,000 a year is a lot of money
I have had a salary not much above that, in the no-longer-recent past. (Dis)Colours my viepoint to a great extent.
//but most people who send their children to private school do not regard it as ‘disposable income’ – it’s a good chunk of what they see as their living expenses//
It's still an -option- the way I look at it. State schools are available.
Okay, so I'm 30 years out of touch with what schools are like and mine had the advantage of being staffed largely by the same teachers as when it was a grammar school, so I still got to Uni in the end.
//Many parents – mums and dads - work all the hours available to them in order to pay it, they often voluntarily forego life’s ‘luxuries’, //
Voluntarily, yes. Like I said, it's a life option. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads to make them do this.
//and it may surprise you to learn that in order to help the parents who are struggling to pay the fees many private schools organise sales of second-hand uniforms and equipment. //
Well done them!
//Private schools do offer a better start in life//
Confession!!
// – as do grammar schools //
I certainly had the benefit. Conversion to comprehensive is just an inconvenient detail which requires careful explanation in my CV which most employers would probably overlook.
// – and I don’t criticise anyone for doing the best they can for their children.//
Me neither but if they collectively stopped being so ludicrously competitive, sent their kids to state school like the rest of us and we let the provate schoold go out of business then we wouldn't end up with this two-tier society.
I'm talking nonsense of course. See that piece about South Korean kids doing 10-14 hour days, to make sure they make the grade? We're going to have to become like that, in order not to get overtaken on the world stage.
//That’s not entirely fair – and actually it smacks of sour grapes. //
The DM article was the one laying on with a trowel about how special he was. I merely restated that, in a somewhat exaggerated manner so that I could question how, if this was the case, he could be allowed (by friends and family) to wander off in a vulnerable state.
//The fact that this boy was a student at a private school doesn’t make him any more ‘precious’ than any other boy //
Quite so. This thread began by others questioning why the DM made such a story about this individual and asking would they have done the same about a kid from the comprehesive? I was just jumping on the bandwagon, somewhat late.
//- but you didn’t have it so no one else should, is that it?
Fair point. The argument in favour of equality inexorably heads towards the one-size-fits-all solution but sharing resources around equally (financially and in terms of teacher quality) dilutes the boost provided by the redistibuted high-quality staff from the private schools. Uniformity would be achieved but the level may only be 102%, 103% of current State schools' performance.
Catch me on any other day and I'll be arguing in favour of elitism. I also had to suffer the annoying kids at the back of the class who'd disrupt the lesson. Words like 'nerd' or 'geek' were not in use at the time and I was not a 'swot', didn't study academic stuff on my own time, so deeply resented being treated like one. That's the part of me which still insists that the brightest kids be hived off to somewhere where they're spared all that hassle or, at the very least, given special lessons to boost their social skills and build a skin thick enough to deal with the roughness of real life.
Hypognosis, // It's still an -option- the way I look at it. State schools are available.//
Of course it’s an option – and so it should be. Given the choice, any caring parent would opt for the best available. Actually, two people spring to mind here. One is Paul McCartney who insisted on sending his children to state school – but then his children were never going to have to be reliant upon their own efforts for survival – and the other one is the Labour politician, Diane Abbott, who whilst enthusiastically extolling the virtues of state Comprehensive schools, had no hesitation in paying for a private education for her own son. So much for her Socialist principles! Do as I say - not as I do!
//Private schools do offer a better start in life//
Confession!!
// – as do grammar schools //
‘Confession’? Taking advantage of a private education isn’t a crime - but in my case funding wasn’t an option and therefore, neither was a private education, so it was a state Grammar school for me.
//The argument in favour of equality inexorably heads towards the one-size-fits-all solution but sharing resources around equally (financially and in terms of teacher quality) dilutes the boost provided by the redistibuted high-quality staff from the private schools.//
Equality is a Utopian dream. It can never exist – and no society, regardless of political philosophy, has ever achieved it. Most people harbour ambition to improve their situation in life, but some who, for whatever reason, do not have the wherewithal or the impetus to accomplish it for themselves expect to attain it through the efforts of others by demanding that wealth be distributed evenly. However, the simple fact is if all the money in the country were to be shared out equally, we would still end up with a divide because some would use it wisely and others would very soon end up stony broke again. Michael Carroll, the man who won over
£9 million on the lottery is a prime example.
//The argument in favour of equality inexorably heads towards the one-size-fits-all solution….//
Yes, it does – and that’s the problem. With the demise of most of our Grammar schools, the ‘one size fits all’ solution has been adopted – but one size does not fit all and it never will. If state schools are failing to provide an education equal to that offered by private schools, then any criticism must be levelled, not at the private sector, but at the state system – and arguably more importantly, at the parents of those children who sat at the back of the class disrupting your education.
//Catch me on any other day and I'll be arguing in favour of elitism.//
I’ll look out for that. ;o)
Of course it’s an option – and so it should be. Given the choice, any caring parent would opt for the best available. Actually, two people spring to mind here. One is Paul McCartney who insisted on sending his children to state school – but then his children were never going to have to be reliant upon their own efforts for survival – and the other one is the Labour politician, Diane Abbott, who whilst enthusiastically extolling the virtues of state Comprehensive schools, had no hesitation in paying for a private education for her own son. So much for her Socialist principles! Do as I say - not as I do!
//Private schools do offer a better start in life//
Confession!!
// – as do grammar schools //
‘Confession’? Taking advantage of a private education isn’t a crime - but in my case funding wasn’t an option and therefore, neither was a private education, so it was a state Grammar school for me.
//The argument in favour of equality inexorably heads towards the one-size-fits-all solution but sharing resources around equally (financially and in terms of teacher quality) dilutes the boost provided by the redistibuted high-quality staff from the private schools.//
Equality is a Utopian dream. It can never exist – and no society, regardless of political philosophy, has ever achieved it. Most people harbour ambition to improve their situation in life, but some who, for whatever reason, do not have the wherewithal or the impetus to accomplish it for themselves expect to attain it through the efforts of others by demanding that wealth be distributed evenly. However, the simple fact is if all the money in the country were to be shared out equally, we would still end up with a divide because some would use it wisely and others would very soon end up stony broke again. Michael Carroll, the man who won over
£9 million on the lottery is a prime example.
//The argument in favour of equality inexorably heads towards the one-size-fits-all solution….//
Yes, it does – and that’s the problem. With the demise of most of our Grammar schools, the ‘one size fits all’ solution has been adopted – but one size does not fit all and it never will. If state schools are failing to provide an education equal to that offered by private schools, then any criticism must be levelled, not at the private sector, but at the state system – and arguably more importantly, at the parents of those children who sat at the back of the class disrupting your education.
//Catch me on any other day and I'll be arguing in favour of elitism.//
I’ll look out for that. ;o)
we should have all round excellence in our schools, we obviously don't, given choice of private re state, i would go for private. many parents are not elitist snobs, but good parents looking out for the welfare, wellbeing of their children. a better start in life helps, and many as been said make enormous scarifies to give them that better start.
