ChatterBank12 mins ago
Sensitive Subject But I Think We Are Up To It.
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Is WW1 depicted fairly in the various comedic productions mentioned in this link?
For example Gove says:
"He added: "The conflict has, for many, been seen through the fictional prism of dramas such as Oh, What a Lovely War!, The Monocled Mutineer and Blackadder, as a misbegotten shambles - a series of catastrophic mistakes perpetrated by an out-of-touch elite.
"Even to this day there are left-wing academics all too happy to feed those myths.""
Now I should point out that my own knowledge of the actual situations and events is limited so I'm trying to be neutral here.
Is WW1 depicted fairly in the various comedic productions mentioned in this link?
For example Gove says:
"He added: "The conflict has, for many, been seen through the fictional prism of dramas such as Oh, What a Lovely War!, The Monocled Mutineer and Blackadder, as a misbegotten shambles - a series of catastrophic mistakes perpetrated by an out-of-touch elite.
"Even to this day there are left-wing academics all too happy to feed those myths.""
Now I should point out that my own knowledge of the actual situations and events is limited so I'm trying to be neutral here.
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@Emmie "because you keep on saying it was the elite blah blah blah, if Princip had not fired the shot, would war have happened.."
And it keep saying it because it is objectively true. Princip was the trigger, not for who he was, but for who he killed.
It was The Austria-Hungary Empire declaring war on Serbia in consequence of the death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, Heir to the throne of the Austria- Hungary Empire that really started it, the game of thrones machinations coming in from calculations about what the other empires would do. Kaiser Wilhelm, cousin to Queen Victoria had imperial ambitions and was jealous of Britains empire was looking to carve out a larger ambition, and Nicholas II on russia throne was surrounded by courtiers and nobility eager to expand their empire.
So yes, you could view WW1 as royalty playing patty-cake.
And it keep saying it because it is objectively true. Princip was the trigger, not for who he was, but for who he killed.
It was The Austria-Hungary Empire declaring war on Serbia in consequence of the death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, Heir to the throne of the Austria- Hungary Empire that really started it, the game of thrones machinations coming in from calculations about what the other empires would do. Kaiser Wilhelm, cousin to Queen Victoria had imperial ambitions and was jealous of Britains empire was looking to carve out a larger ambition, and Nicholas II on russia throne was surrounded by courtiers and nobility eager to expand their empire.
So yes, you could view WW1 as royalty playing patty-cake.
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Gove is entitled to his opinions, sure - that does not make him necessarily right though, nor to change the educational curriculum to reflect his opinions. The politicians have the right and the duty to set the framework of education, but not necessarily to dictate the curriculum.
As far as WW1 goes,I agree that not all the military leadership was incompetent. I would also agree that the nature of war had changed so much that the military leadership on all sides were unprepared for the realities of modern warfare - but that there were incompetents there can be no question, and thousands of lives were wasted through strategic error.
And the reasons for the WW1 was down to the imperial ambitions of the respective empires, with Germany and the Austria-Hungary alliance being most to blame - And these were the ambitions of the elite, the privileged, the entitled few.
As far as WW1 goes,I agree that not all the military leadership was incompetent. I would also agree that the nature of war had changed so much that the military leadership on all sides were unprepared for the realities of modern warfare - but that there were incompetents there can be no question, and thousands of lives were wasted through strategic error.
And the reasons for the WW1 was down to the imperial ambitions of the respective empires, with Germany and the Austria-Hungary alliance being most to blame - And these were the ambitions of the elite, the privileged, the entitled few.
Just because nature might be more efficient ( although very possibly with a helping hand from man) does not excuse those who made the decisions to go to war and destroy countless thousands of lives.
Hitler is a different animal altogether; You could claim that WW2 was a "just" war, although whether Hitler would ever have arisen, ever commanded the popular support of the people of Germany had WW1 and the consequent settlement against Germany by the Allies been levied is a moot point.
Hitler is a different animal altogether; You could claim that WW2 was a "just" war, although whether Hitler would ever have arisen, ever commanded the popular support of the people of Germany had WW1 and the consequent settlement against Germany by the Allies been levied is a moot point.
I was in Bosham, Sussex on Friday and looked at the War Memorial with multiple losses from the same families.
In a time when the loss of 600 or so service people is a painful national experience, the scale of carnage in WW1 is hard to contemplate.
In a time when officers take measured risks with servicemen's lives, the idea of tens of thousands walking towards almost certain death is unimaginable as is the mentality of senior officers who ordered them to do so with such scant reason to think the outcome would be any better than the previous attempt.
In the circumstances, perhaps it is inevitable that the comic perspective leans toward the surreal.
In a time when the loss of 600 or so service people is a painful national experience, the scale of carnage in WW1 is hard to contemplate.
In a time when officers take measured risks with servicemen's lives, the idea of tens of thousands walking towards almost certain death is unimaginable as is the mentality of senior officers who ordered them to do so with such scant reason to think the outcome would be any better than the previous attempt.
In the circumstances, perhaps it is inevitable that the comic perspective leans toward the surreal.
WW1 didn't have a monopoly of dodgy decisions leading to truly tragic results.
In WW2 the US Navy had a policy of separating siblings, but on 13 Nov 1942 the USS Juneau went down. taking with it the FIVE Sullivan brothers, ages 27, 26, 24, 23 and 20.
Imagine being the mother when she was told. imagine being the one who told her.
In WW2 the US Navy had a policy of separating siblings, but on 13 Nov 1942 the USS Juneau went down. taking with it the FIVE Sullivan brothers, ages 27, 26, 24, 23 and 20.
Imagine being the mother when she was told. imagine being the one who told her.
its why they changed the law, they made their story into a film, which i have seen, it is truly heartbreaking, i would add that when you see many memorials around the country and i have visited quite a few over the years, they list family members, some like the Sullivans, not just one or two but all the sons, brothers, and then the Pals units, friends who joined together and all killed. My friends brother was just 21, i paid my respects on their behalf as they are half a world away. it was the least i could do
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