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Ukraine - Full Military Mobilisation.
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At the risk of sounding like a cracked record Coldicote, read the lnk I posted earlier in this thread (the second one NOT the first!). In it Tim Snyder explains beautifully exactly how it started and also the behaviour and the nature of the regime that the people succeeded in overthrowing. It has beome known as the Maidan Revolution.
What I find particularly fascinating about it is not just the way he picks out individual people, and their contribution, but paints a vivid picture of the dilemma faced by a thoroughly corrupt regime: namely,how to suck all the money from the state into your own coffers and yet somehow maintain that same state such that it confirms your power. The Russians don't have quite the same problem because of oil revenue.
But he didn't succeed at doing that. From your own article:
It is hard to have all of the power and all of the money at the same time, because power comes from the state, and the state has to have a budget. If a leader steals so much from the people that the state goes bankrupt, then his power is diminished. Yanukovych actually faced this problem last year. And so, despite everything, he became vulnerable, in a very curious way. He needed someone to finance the immediate debts of the Ukrainian state so that his regime would not fall along with it.
It is hard to have all of the power and all of the money at the same time, because power comes from the state, and the state has to have a budget. If a leader steals so much from the people that the state goes bankrupt, then his power is diminished. Yanukovych actually faced this problem last year. And so, despite everything, he became vulnerable, in a very curious way. He needed someone to finance the immediate debts of the Ukrainian state so that his regime would not fall along with it.
No indeed he did not. I wasn't suggesting he had.
But I'd never really thought of it like that. I always knew Yanukovich was a criminal and it doesn't say much for the previous well-meaing but incompetent Orange Revolution government that he was able to make an unlikely comeback in the last Presidential election, but even I didn't realise quite how bad he was.
But I'd never really thought of it like that. I always knew Yanukovich was a criminal and it doesn't say much for the previous well-meaing but incompetent Orange Revolution government that he was able to make an unlikely comeback in the last Presidential election, but even I didn't realise quite how bad he was.
/// For one thing, these two countries are, along with Russia, guarantors of the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Russia is now blatantly breaking that
guarantee. ///
Regarding this guarantee, wasn't it signed when there was a legitimate government in the Ukraine, so is it still valid now that there is a unelected, rebel government in power?
Perhaps Russia has every right to go into the Ukraine so as to protect the Russian people who reside there, when the country has been thrown into a virtual civil war?
Just asking nothing more.
guarantee. ///
Regarding this guarantee, wasn't it signed when there was a legitimate government in the Ukraine, so is it still valid now that there is a unelected, rebel government in power?
Perhaps Russia has every right to go into the Ukraine so as to protect the Russian people who reside there, when the country has been thrown into a virtual civil war?
Just asking nothing more.
"Regarding this guarantee, wasn't it signed when there was a legitimate government in the Ukraine, so is it still valid now that there is a unelected, rebel government in power?"
In what way is the current government not legitimate. The old president ran away and they were unlikely to invite him back gioven he'd just had scores of protesters shot and embezzled billions of dollars from the country's economy?
"
Perhaps Russia has every right to go into the Ukraine so as to protect the Russian people who reside there, when the country has been thrown into a virtual civil war? "
The country has not been thrown into any sort of civil war as a matter of fact.
The Russians, in addition, did not need protecting at all. From whom exactly?
Undfortunately Putin's aggression is actually stirring up the very divisions which were never there in the first place.
Just telling :-)
In what way is the current government not legitimate. The old president ran away and they were unlikely to invite him back gioven he'd just had scores of protesters shot and embezzled billions of dollars from the country's economy?
"
Perhaps Russia has every right to go into the Ukraine so as to protect the Russian people who reside there, when the country has been thrown into a virtual civil war? "
The country has not been thrown into any sort of civil war as a matter of fact.
The Russians, in addition, did not need protecting at all. From whom exactly?
Undfortunately Putin's aggression is actually stirring up the very divisions which were never there in the first place.
Just telling :-)
ichkeria
/// In what way is the current government not legitimate. ///
Well for starters it has not been democratically elected into power.
/// The old president ran away and they were unlikely to invite him back gioven he'd just had scores of protesters shot and embezzled billions of dollars from the country's economy? ///
Can you blame him for running away, the mob would have strung him up from the nearest lamp post if he hadn't?
/// The country has not been thrown into any sort of civil war as a matter of fact. The Russians, in addition, did not need protecting at all. From whom exactly? ///
This is not an overall agreement, there are plenty of Ukrainians who wish to remain loyal to Russia, and they are being attacked by those who wish allegiance to the West.
/// In what way is the current government not legitimate. ///
Well for starters it has not been democratically elected into power.
/// The old president ran away and they were unlikely to invite him back gioven he'd just had scores of protesters shot and embezzled billions of dollars from the country's economy? ///
Can you blame him for running away, the mob would have strung him up from the nearest lamp post if he hadn't?
/// The country has not been thrown into any sort of civil war as a matter of fact. The Russians, in addition, did not need protecting at all. From whom exactly? ///
This is not an overall agreement, there are plenty of Ukrainians who wish to remain loyal to Russia, and they are being attacked by those who wish allegiance to the West.
"Well for starters it has not been democratically elected into power. "
No it hasn't but elections are pending. As I said before, the previous administration melted away and left a power vacuum.
In fact, the government are all appointed from elected representatives, which is no different from the previous government, and indeed no different from our government at Westminster.
"Can you blame him for running away, the mob would have strung him up from the nearest lamp post if he hadn't? "
No of course I don't blame him from running away. The fact is that he did though. And actually note the order and restraint with which his mansion was opened up to the public - not a scrap was pinched, note a pane of glass broken. So I rather doubt he would have been lynched.
"This is not an overall agreement, there are plenty of Ukrainians who wish to remain loyal to Russia, and they are being attacked by those who wish allegiance to the West. "
Simply untrue. There are no Ukrainians "loyal to Russia" as you put it. Many in the east identify more closely with Russia but very few are "loyal to them" as such.
In Crimea it is different - it's the one region of Ukraine with a significant majority of actual Russians, as opposed to Russian speakers, But there equally, no one has been threatened. The place has been largely peacfeul apart from one violent confrontation in Simferopol last week which was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
What did happ
No it hasn't but elections are pending. As I said before, the previous administration melted away and left a power vacuum.
In fact, the government are all appointed from elected representatives, which is no different from the previous government, and indeed no different from our government at Westminster.
"Can you blame him for running away, the mob would have strung him up from the nearest lamp post if he hadn't? "
No of course I don't blame him from running away. The fact is that he did though. And actually note the order and restraint with which his mansion was opened up to the public - not a scrap was pinched, note a pane of glass broken. So I rather doubt he would have been lynched.
"This is not an overall agreement, there are plenty of Ukrainians who wish to remain loyal to Russia, and they are being attacked by those who wish allegiance to the West. "
Simply untrue. There are no Ukrainians "loyal to Russia" as you put it. Many in the east identify more closely with Russia but very few are "loyal to them" as such.
In Crimea it is different - it's the one region of Ukraine with a significant majority of actual Russians, as opposed to Russian speakers, But there equally, no one has been threatened. The place has been largely peacfeul apart from one violent confrontation in Simferopol last week which was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
What did happ
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