When The Going Get's Tough.......

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26461426
.... the tough....have a meeting! Those Ruskies must be cacking it! So what can the EU do to help the Ukraine situation?

[jno]

stop buying Russian oil?

[youngmafbog]

//The EU ranks as Russia's number one trading partner, accounting for almost 41% of all trade.//

The EU are a bunch of lefties as are the Ruissians so they will do nothing. Putin can outclass the lot of them.

[youngmafbog]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26436291

[jno]

the Russians are a bunch of lefties? What is this, 1956??

[youngmafbog]

So how would you describe them then jno, raving Tories ? or aligned to the National Front?

Of course they are still commies.

[ludwig]

// what can the EU do to help the Ukraine situation? //

Nothing much apart from financial sanctions. Putin will pretty much do what he wants. The worrying thing is he's quite young, so he'll be around for years yet, becoming ever more megalomaniacal and dangerous.

[LazyGun]

"So how would you describe them then jno, raving Tories ? or aligned to the National Front? "

None of the above. Such polarising and juvenile terminology offers nothing.

For those who do not think negotiation and diplomacy is the way to go - what is your alternative? Military intervention? If so, with what objective? What should be the outcome? An independent Ukraine with its existing borders intact? A partitioned/ seceeded Ukraine, with Crimea reverting to Russia? Nuclear exchanges? Tanks rolling over borders?

Of course the EU have a role in this, as do the USA.

[Kromovaracun]

Putin's successive governments have demonstrated an obsession with extending privatization without any consideration of the human cost. His rhetoric very much apes the kind of thing you hear from Republicans in the states about standing up to the men in the capital (despite saying this from the capital). His power is built on the support of oligarchs who are allowed pretty much unfettered control of huge swathes of the economy and, more recently, the Orthodox church.

I really fail to see how he could possibly be described as a 'Lefty.'

For the west's options, I'll link to an article that I put in the other thread, which summarises them: http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/?fa=54731

Basically, the west can't do much to directly stop Putin. But it can harm the assets of the people he listens to - it can put a stop to its bids to join the OECD and the IEA and use Russia's reliance on international financial markets.

[LazyGun]

It seems like the Crimean Parliament are forcing the issue;

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/06/ukraine-crisis-vote-idUKL6N0M31W620140306

They have just voted to become part of the Russian Federation.

[ToraToraTora]

That seems sensible LG, presumably The Crimea will effectively become an autonomous state in the RF and the rest of Ukraine can look to the EU etc.

[TWR]

Keep our bloody nose out before more young men / women are about to lose their lives for interfering in other countries problems.

[New Judge]

Yes I think TWR’s suggestion is admirable. Leave them alone, let them get on with it. The result will probably be a partitioned Ukraine - no big deal. Those who want to align themselves with the Ruskies can go and live in the east or in Crimea, those who want to open a joint bank account with Bill Gates (sorry, align themselves with the EU) can live in the west. Russia is not going to cede control of its Black Sea naval port to a nation which is in bed with the EU.

We have seen in the last few weeks yet another example of a legitimate government being turfed out by people who have become fed up with them. Unlike western nations the electorate there have failed to grasp that democracy means not everybody gets what they want (and very often everybody gets what nobody wants). Once they join the EU that might become clear to them, though the planeloads of other people’s 50 euro notes that will be flown in to help them "rebuild" their country might help them become more amenable to the idea.

[youngmafbog]

There are problems in East Ukraine too TTT. So Ukraine will probably br carved up too.

Does seem the most sensible solution and minimizes life loss,

[Kromovaracun]

"yet another example of a legitimate government being turfed out by people who have become fed up with them."

Yanukovich was impeached perfectly legally. Furthermore, I invite you to consider that Yanukovich was not some unsavoury but ultimately accountable democratic ruler - he was an utterly corrupt, thuggish kleptocrat. If a British government started acting with such extremity, I'd say they would have lost any legitimacy they might won from an election too.

[New Judge]

So a few squaddies over the gates to No 10 would be alright then kromo?

Unfortunately our idea of democracy does not always align with that of those elsewhere and we are foolish in the extreme to believe that it does. It is quite clear that Ukraine is split and that such a split will not be tolerated in the same way as it would be in "democratic" nations. It will have to be resolved by methods alien to us.

[ludwig]

// Unlike western nations the electorate there have failed to grasp that democracy means not everybody gets what they want (and very often everybody gets what nobody wants). //

Yankovich wanted a pirate galleon, a private zoo, and some gold plated monogrammed golf-clubs, so at least one person got what he wanted in their democracy.

[youngmafbog]

No bouncer they are the retired or ones that wanted out in the main. We would want the good ones that are left.