My Dad has been charged with Driving Without Due Care and Attention - Please Help!

[Wheat_Wheel]

Hi there,

I'm really needing a bit of advice. My dad is 83 years old and still drives. He is one of the most opinionated and cantankerous people I know and he is as stubborn as a mule. I've been hoping for years that he might give up driving, but he refuses, blaming my 79 year old mother because she likes to get out of the house (my mum is disabled and can't get on a bus easily as she uses a wheelchair).

Anyway, he has told me he has been charged with Driving without Due Care and Attention. Apparently he had stopped at a T-Junction intending to turn right. He said that he was waiting for a space in the traffic on the road he was turning into. As he turned he felt a bump but didn't know what it was, so stopped the car. Basically there was a motorcyclist on his right hand side that came up the waiting queue of traffic and my dad hadn't seen the person. Thankfully he was not badly injured - just bruising. My dad intends to plead Not Guilty as the motorcyclist cut up the queue of traffic and my dad didn't see him while he was waiting at the head of the queue. I've told him to plead Guilty because regardless of what the motorcyclist was doing beforehand, my dad ended up hitting him, so he wasn't paying enough attention - am I right?

Also I've read that he could be fined and have 3-9 points on his license or a discretionary ban. What is the likelihood that the Court will take his driving license away and that will be an end to his stubborn refusal to give up when he is really not fit to drive? :-( He has no previous convictions (but has hit many walls , etc who obviously can't call the Police or claim his insurance).

I've seriously had enough of all of this worry and would love for his license to go, however selfish that might sound. He is not fit to be on the road.

[tamborine]

Those who find 'think bike' annoying should not be driving vehicles.

Had this driver checked his wing mirrors before moving, he would have seen the bike.

[joko]

the bike should have waited for the car to go...the car could not have hit the bike if it was stationary...therefore the bike moved forward and tried to speed past the car...

if as a cyclist you come alongside traffic on the right then you must be prepared for the fact that some of them will be turning right...

[Rapunzel61]

Most likely your father will have two options, either to give his driving license up voluntarily, or to take a test. This is what happened to my father, he swerved to avoid a van pulling out and went into the back of somebody, no serious injuries, but the airbag went off and he had a few bruises, he was 77 at the time and had a clean license - he gave up driving voluntarily thank goodness. he was told if he gave up driving, no court preceedings would be necessary.

Can you contact 'Help the Aged or Saga, they usually have a team of volunteer drivers to take people out.

[Wheat_Wheel]

joko, my understanding was that the bike cut up the queue and went to the front of my dad's car at the right hand side. My dad didn't see him there before setting off. I think there is fault on both sides, but my dad said that all he could tell the Police was that he didn't know where the guy had come from and hadn't seen him there - he just felt a bump. Witnesses have backed up the motorcyclist, not my dad and the Police have charged him. I don't know if he's really got any other option but to plead guilty.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and help. Your support has been very much appreciated. I'm finding this all very stressful to cope with.

[joko]

people will tend to sympathise with the injured party and strangely their recollections will change to suit this... if he was sitting in front of your dads car for a few minutes...i dont see how your dad could not have seen him... unless your dad is blind....i dont believe he was there at all...that is probably his story now, in order to blame your dad...
where abouts on the car was the impact?

i myself had an minor incident...the idiot woman had continued to ease past me, at the end of a tight road, cars down both sides and an extra van at the end, where normally she'd have been able to move out into and pass me safely... she wedged herself in with only an inch to spare, then refused to back out...but because of the angle of my car, as i reversed it made contact and only scratched hers...
a woman went round the block and came back ground and by this time id moved an parked an walked back and she loudly and excitedly asserted to the other woman that she had seen my car was on the wrong side of the road and that it was my fault...and would support her in court!
she didnt know i was standing there, presumably thought id driven off, an i challenged her...because if anything the other car was on the wrong side because it was going down the centre of the road...i was right over to the left...
she also had no idea that this woman had wedged me in...so you see witnesses can not always be trusted...

[Wheat_Wheel]

the collision happened with th right hand side of the front of the car on the bumper. At first, my dad couldn't see any damage at all, and the Policeman pointed out some damage at the foot of the bumper - he said it is where the car hit the exhaust of the motorbike.

[flip_flop]

"Witnesses have backed up the motorcyclist, not my Dad and the police have charged him"

Given your comments, and despite people, such as joko, blaming the motorcyclist, the fact that witnesses have blamed your father and the police have charged him, it is clear your father was at fault.

[starone]

I am 84 and made the decision long ago that I was a danger to other people on the roads. Not because of any accident but because I realised I was getting slower in my reaction time and also was not able to judge space and speed of other cars properly. My husband drove until he died when he was 82 but I hated getting into the car with him and although I loved him dearly would have been very glad if he had accepted the fact that he could not see as well as he used to. Our senses deteriorate as we get old, unfortunately, and anyone who will not admit the fact is foolish indeed.

[joko]

Ahhh... i thought the bike was to the side of him...still begs the question as to how he couldnt see a great bik motorbike and rider - or hear it - when it is right in front of him...

either your dad has terrible eyesight an shouldnt be on the road, or the bike was not there until the last minute...

regardless, its probably time your dad stopped driving...i only wish i could get my own dad to stop too...

[Wheat_Wheel]

I really do feel that the time has come for him to stop driving and it's a shame that it's taken this to possibly make that happen. Regardless of this incident, he intends to continue driving until he goes to court and they decide what will happen as he will plead Not Guilty. I'm just so thankful that noone was seriously hurt and hope that this comes to Court quickly.

Does anyone know the timescale for these things coming to Court?

[vallaw]

The rights and wrongs of the case don't really matter here. What does matter is this could be the answer to your prayers and get your Dad off the road before someone gets hurt. Good luck!

[ladybirder]

I can't answer your question WW and I do sympathise with you and your father. But I have to say I absolutely dread the day I have to give up driving. It must feel as if you're life has come to an end and it depresses me to even think about it. I have always been the one to drive my family around and give friends lifts and generally make me and my car useful to people. I love driving, it's one of my great pleasures even on today's roads. It's a massive thing for most old people to have to give up, but I know there comes a time when we have to. Hope mine is a good way off yet.

[jno]

I think you're right, the fact that he was or was not signalling is important. If he was, I think the cyclist was at fault. If he wasn't, he could still argue that the cyclist had no business trying to occupy the same lane as him.

How bad is his driving, really? If he's coming off the road a lot, then that's pretty bad. But if all that's happened is an accident that may not have been his fault at all, then maybe you're judging him too harshly?

[Wheat_Wheel]

jno, you should see the gateposts of his house! - he has knocked part of the wall down from repeatedly scraping against it and hitting it from misjudging coming in and out of the driveway.

He hit 2 cars at slow speeds in the past year, but gave them money to fix their cars rather than go through insurance.

I'd be the first to defend my dad if I felt he was being unfairly treated, but I really think the time has come for him, sadly, where driving is concerned

[jno]

fair enough, Wheat-Wheel, I guess I'd be feeling the same way!

All the same, if I was his lawyer I'd be thinking of fighting this case, depending on what the evidence is about his signals. (Has he checked to see if they're working properly?)

[New Judge]

If your father is convicted (and from what you say it is quite a big “if”) the Magistrates are unlikely to impose an outright disqualification. Although disqualification is discretionary for any offence which carries an endorsement, sentencing guidelines for Careless Driving suggest that a far more serious version of the offence must occur before disqualification is considered.

However, they also have the option to disqualify until a test is passed following a conviction for any endorseable offence. However, this is usually only done “where there is evidence of inexperience, incompetence or infirmity...” and the key is “evidence of infirmity”. The fact that your father was involved in this incident is not, by itself, such evidence. After all far more serious incidents occur where alleged infirmity is not an issue. The Crown will have to produce evidence that this incident was a result of your father’s infirmity, and in my view this would not be easy.

If he is disqualified until a test is passed it means he can drive as a provisional licence holder (with ‘L’ Plates and supervised by a qualified driver). The test will be an ordinary test. An extended test can only be ordered when the disqualification results from an offence which carries a mandatory disqualification.

[Hopkirk]

Any motorcyclist who drives up a queue at a T junction, and sits to the right of the car at the front - indicating or not - deserves everything they get.

[cupotee2]

I know this is an old thread, and wish there had been a last post with the outcome of wheat wheels Fathers situation.

In case anyone else reads this, I would like to add I had been wanting my 82 year old OH to give up driving, but having driven daily for a living he was adamant he was safe and confident to drive even tho I was getting scared to get in the car with him for all the silly mistakes he's made.
Roundabouts were a nightmare, I would sit and cringe waiting for the crash of someone coming into the side of our car.

A few weeks ago I am thankful it was taken out of my hands when he insisted on overtaking a lorry at a spot where it was obvious for all to see there wasn't enough room to get through.

The result was a nasty contact with the rear wheels of the lorry when I was convinced this is it.....were going to be thrown over on our side.

Shouting at him to stop stop stop....he eventually did and pulled behind the lorry that by now also stopped.

The shortened version on what happened next was the police went into the back of the ambulance and took his licence there and then.

Apparently its what the police do these days, when its clear an older driver was at fault. I understand he could re-sit a driving test but no way would he pass. Stubborn old devil has mentioned a few times he has been thinking he might put in for it again....

Its my motability car and he has to put up with me for his driver or use his bus pass.

I'm considering giving up when the lease runs out in a few months. I can't get on and off buses but will happily use the local Dial a Ride.

I really do think there ought to be a test for older drivers.....70 onwards at least.