Estate Accounts

[thugulike]

I asked a question here late last year and thought I would give you an update. The Executor of the will has refused to provide either copies of the will or Estate Accounts for the main beneficiaries as required by law. I have sent him a copy of the duties of an executor (Age UK) and all the other HMRC and GOV.UK leaflets and he insists that he doesn't have to do it. I have offered to do the task if he gives me the papers and he has refused to do that as well. I now know that the accounts have to be agreed and signed by the beneficiaries. Not sure how we'll do that if there aren't any accounts. Beneficiaries were paid from the executors private bank account and may struggle to prove that the money was inherited at all.

I have tried to ring the HMRC probate help line but before they answer they hang up (after waiting for ages and going through all the pathways). What can I do next?

[factor-fiction]

Have a look on the gov.uk site about probate- I thought a copy of the will could be viewed via the probate office. By law he should have applied for probate (unless the will is very small perhaps)

[factor-fiction]

As regards "I now know that the accounts have to be agreed and signed by the beneficiaries." I am not sure of the legal position but I don't think this happens in practice in most cases

[Old_Jim]

Oh yes he does. Offer him the choice of performing his fiduciary duties correctly or going to prison. HMRC won't help. If he doesn't cooperate, get a solicitor.

[thugulike]

FF whether or not it happens in practice is immaterial if it is a legal requirement. I am suspicious as to why he is resisting when it is such a simple task. The executor has tried to bully me (it is not the first time this has happened with the same executor) and I am not backing down this time. I need to have proof of where the cash came from. Old Jim, what would the criminal charge be?

[factor-fiction]

>FF whether or not it happens in practice is immaterial if it is a legal requirement.

I agree- if it is indeed a legal requirement. I said I wasn't sure because in practice I haven't seen it happen (but i accept than in the ones I dealt with everyone trusted the executor). But if you have checked it, that's fine. I'm not sure what the legal process is though for forcing people to produce such accounts and what the penalty is for non-compliance. Good luck

[Buenchico]

Start by getting hold of a copy of the Grant (which will be accompanied by a copy of the will):
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills

[thugulike]

Thanks Chris I have downloaded the form and will send it off with the fee today. Why is this information so difficult to find?

[factor-fiction]

Chris's link is the best one.
If you Google "how to get a copy of a will" you will get loads of entries and the excellent gov.uk site's page is the first proper entry in the list, but many people may click on one of the others and get one of those copycat profit-making sites that will charge a fee.

[dzug2]

My understanding is that beneficiaries with a specific bequest are not entitled to a copy of the will (other than from the probate office) or the accounts

Residuary beneficiaries are entitled.

I'm not sure that they actually have to sign and agree them though

[Peter Pedant]

Once you have got a copy of the will and the grant as BC says,
First of all you need to know if the ball park figures are out of kilter

try one more demand for the accounts - and then it looks as tho you are going to have to instruct a solicitor - and I dont say that often (at £200/h)

basically you are alleging breach of trust by the executors
which I agree could be dispelled in five minutes by the refused accounts
so you have to have at least some ammunition...

as usual we dont have all the facts - if you have got the proceeds of a house and not the house itself - then the selling price will be on zoopla and you can get an idea if you are not getting the full whack

if the executor is a solicitor - basically you are screwed - they can charge all sorts of things a sibling cant - which is a good reason NOT to have a lawyer as an exec of your will.

I have sympathy with you thug-you - a fren' was left a car as he found out when he got a copy of the will ( see BC's post) and as cool as cucumber the solicitor said to the fren' oh I have been told it is not available, it was given to charity three days after the fella died....
and he thought / hoped that was that ! (it wasnt)

[Barmaid]

By law, the executor is required to collect, get in and administer the estate and deliver up to the COurt when required to do so a copy of the accounts. See s25 Administration of Estates Act 1925.

If the executor refuses to provide accounts you can have him summonsed at the Probate Registry to produce them.

The beneficiaries do not have to agree and sign the estate accounts at law.

[Peter Pedant]

Thanks Barmaid - sxhort and to the point.

as with a lot of your cases, it would be easier and cheaper if people acted as human beings to each other - and thugu that is not aimed at you !

[thugulike]

Thanks everyone for your answers. I have applied for a copy of the grant but not received it yet. I am entitled under the will to a share of the house which has been sold (to the executor) and the residuary estate. I am doubtful as to whether the amount distributed is correct as it is a round sum figure. I do need a copy of the account so that I can prove where the cash came from, surely?

[Peter Pedant]

Sorry just seen this
If the executor has sold the house to.... the executor
then I am not surprised you are on the warpath

He clearly cannot give himself a discount....