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that;s interesting thank you, i hate this pestering every damn day, they phone either as i am about to eat, i don't need to answer it, but it might the family so i do, then i get this idiot from SA, India, wherever that i can hardly understand, they prattle on and on, do i know about the tv, mobile package, on offer and on - yes i know all about it, from the junk mail that pours through the door almost every day. so i would need to ask for a mac number, do i need Plusnet router? and is this going to be painless, if anyone looked at the link. which seems a good deal, all advice most welcome