Could A Group Be Given A More Appropriate Name?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624826/Gary-Barlow-two-Take-That-stars-hit-20million-bill-court-rules-poured-66million-tax-avoidance-scheme-super-rich.html

Should it now be renamed "Give It Back"?

[pixie373]

As jno says, the law does distinguish between them. It's often the case that words we use colloquially have specific meanings in different areas.

[SirOracle]

How about Tax Circumvention Pixie (:-

[Gromit]

Doddying Tax.

[anotheoldgit]

pixie373

/// It does sound as if they did nothing illegal, if immoral. So maybe the laws need to be changed. Avoidance isn't the same as evasion. ///

*** As has been well documented, there is a fine line between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Just ask Tony Blair. The former Prime Minister came under the spotlight earlier this year for paying only £315,000 of tax on earnings of £12m. The surprisingly low amount has been attributed to his company channelling millions of pounds through a complicated web of companies. ***

*** The fine line between right and wrong is nothing new. Former Labour chancellor Denis Healy once famously said that the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion was ‘the thickness of a prison wall’. Timely words more than 20 years on, given that from earlier this year individuals will no longer be protected from receiving both hefty fines and prison sentences if found guilty of tax offences. ***

http://www.aatcomment.org.uk/aat-view/when-tax-bites-back

[andy-hughes]

AOG - I can't agree that avoidance and evasion are the same thing.

Anyone who has the facility to avoid paying tax will do so.

I have no problem with individuals or companies avoiding as much tax as they can - individuals do it for their families and families for their shareholders.

The fault lies entirely with successive governments who are willing to leave loopholes open so that their supporters (and voters) can use them.

To think anything different is naiive.

[Buenchico]

A simple question for anyone posting on this thread:

Let's assume that YOU were earning a lot of money. Let's further assume that YOU decided that you needed to employ an accountant to handle your complex financial affairs. Lastly, let's assume that YOUR accountant said "I've come across a scheme that seems to be totally legal but could save you a great deal of money by reducing your tax liability".

So which one of you would have said 'No thanks'?

(I sincerely hope that none of you would. The rule should always be 'Look after Number One'!)

[Peter Pedant]

I was surprised the boys in Take that, couldnt Add It Up.

They were in a company tha made a £30m loss which could be off-set.
then the next year it mad e a similar loss....

at this point the company should go bust. ( swingeing trading losses in two years )

but it didnt - obvious scam. - and will attract HMRC investigation.

I am surprised Gary and his pals didnt Take a Sniff and see the whole thing stunk.

[pixie373]

Yes, my point was they were acting legally to pay less tax- as anyone would. If there are loopholes, they should be corrected to prevent this being allowed.

[anotheoldgit]

The BBC in their TV news report stated that Cameron said after Jimmy Carr's tax evasion, "This is morally unacceptable" yet to date he has remained silent over Gary Barlow.

I wonder why?

[pixie373]

I believe Jimmy Carr's was also avoidance- not evasion. Big difference.

[anotheoldgit]

pixie373

/// I believe Jimmy Carr's was also avoidance- not evasion. Big difference. ///

My mistake, I know the difference see my 14:04 Sat 10th May 2014 post to you.

[Peter Pedant]

AOG - I can't agree that avoidance and evasion are the same thing

o come on boys you need to sort this out
evasion is a crime - v bad. Doddy was acquitted on this and sstood to be fined not more than the tax owing - £1m in his case. Then he has to pay the tax he didnt pay £1m, and also things calle dpains and penalties - not more than £1m - triple trouble for evasion.

avoidance takes advantage of Lord Summerskills famous one liner - everyone can arrange their affairs to minimise their tax bill

What is becoming popular is GAAR - general anti-avoidance rules. Pioneered by NZ tax authorities. and it is also becoming law that you cant set up an arrangement whose sole purpose is tax avoidance - but it is OK if it is a by-product.

The tax man is allowed to attack (literally ) some schemes and not others, and their camplaign to drive Rossminster bankrupt ( famous avoidance specialists ) was ruled lawful.

Lawyers make big money from this I can tell you

[Peter Pedant]

and the tax tribunal determination is to be found here:

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/judgmentfiles/j7741/TC03545.pdf