Many Christians believe that God will take you (you will die) when your time has come

[RATTER15]

If this is the case, if you are knocked over by a car or fall terminally ill is right that they should seek life saving treatment.

Why would they even bother looking before crossing the road, when God wants you he will call, no option.

I know a devout Christian, just a little bit fanatical. after many years of trying for a baby they have now just had a delightful baby, however they had to have the baby by IVF. they are under the impression that God has now given them this baby. Surely if God wanted them to have this baby they wouldn't have to go through IVf, in my view they went against Gods wishes seeking medical intervention.

I don't believe any of this claptrap but wondered what the Christian slant on this is?

[Ankou]

god works in mysteryous ways.

[RATTER15]

Yes Ankou, i'm sure I will hear those words again, a very mysterious way lol

[Canary42]

I saw a good play at the National Theatre only yesterday which casts an interesting slant on this. Based on an Ibsen play, Emperor and Galilean, it covers the life of Roman Emperor Julian and his attempt to push back the tide of Christianity and return to the pagan gods of Ancient Greece.

Only problem IMO is it is biased towards the Christians which I doubt Ibsen would have intended originally.

[Ankou]

sorry ratter, but what new, comprehensive and convicing answers were you expecting ?

[beso]

It is profoundly ironic isn't it? It is incredible the total philosophical disparity that some people easily entertain.

No doubt there are also couples who undertake IVF but object vehemently to any other form of genetic engineering.

[RATTER15]

I am hoping for a realistic answer from a Christian.

They do have answers don't they??

[dave50]

The same argument could be used for any form of medical treatment. If you have it then you are playing God.

[Ankou]

yes, but generally not ones that are new, comprehensive and convincing.

[RATTER15]

Yes Dave, but how do Christians view this?

Do they see that they are playing God?

Im an Atheist so I don't know how they would justify going to see someone that would possibly save their life.

[ludwig]

Just because they couldn't conceive naturally doesn't mean god didn't want them to have a baby. The fact that the IVF worked proves that he did, and that he wanted them to go through that process all along.

There's always a way to rationalise these things if you're desparate enough to find one.

[pa___ul3]

God's a nasty bugger then if he wants to put a family through all that! Why pick on them when others have it so easy? Why let them conceive through IVF when others can't?
That's my problem with religion, when people clame that God has blessed them, it's essentially suggesting that they are more important than others who haven't been 'blessed'.

[pa___ul3]

*claim even, I wasn't blessed with the ability to spell it would seem!!

[beso]

God is not being bad to the couples. He is being good to the IVF employees by giving them jobs.

It must be a really tricky balance being God. Do I let the person live or do I help the funeral director pay his mortgage today?

[Zeuhl]

One of the beauties of 'faith' is that it is self-fulfilling.

Whatever happens, whatever interventions we do or don't make - it can be described as God's Will or Insha’Allah etc

Neat trick huh?

<<Even things considered “evil” are not outside Allah’s realm – it’s thought the evils that happen now will eventually result in human good man cannot understand.>>

So that's all right then (lol)

[beso]

One of the reasons the Abrahamic faiths became so strong is that they were based on attributing the success in battle to the assistance of a deity.

Both those who won the battle and the survivors from the vanquished concluded the victor's god was more powerful.

This is also why their foundational stories are infused with so much brutal violence.

[Khandro]

Yes beso, this was also the stance of German national socialism; a distortion of Darwin amplified by Nietzsche, a belief that IF you prevail, you are therefore 'right', no matter what you do to acheive this end.

[mibn2cweus]

//Yes beso, this was also the stance of German national socialism; a distortion of Darwin amplified by Nietzsche, a belief that IF you prevail, you are therefore 'right', no matter what you do to acheive this end.//

Apparently, there was one vital link missing in their chain of 'logic' they chose to neglect. They did not prevail simply because . . . they were not right!

[Khandro]

Indeed !

[pugwashjw]

That cannot be true...that we have a set date for dying.
If we did, we could take all the risks in the world and not be hurt...right up to the time allotted to us.
Would you step in front of a speeding truck...on the off chance that your time is NOT up...
WE preserve our life AT ALL TIMES...
(Ecclesiastes 9:11) I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all.