1St Day Of Autumn

[mikey4444]

Someone told that it is the first day of Autumn today, but it seems a tad early for that...what is the official day please ?

[sandyRoe]

Is it not this date next month?

[pastafreak]

21-22nd SEPTEMBER...

[B00]

Don't know what the official date is but surely it's around the end of September time?

[mikey4444]

Well, that is what I thought but this daft woman behind the counter in the petrol station wouldn't have it. I shall call on the 21st of next month and challenge her !

[jourdain2]

I was always told that I was an Autumn baby (20th August), my bolshie daughter recently told me that August was in the Summer - so I checked. August 1st is the feast of Lammas - which is the first day of Autumn, historically, and the start of harvest. Harvest, of course, just precedes Winter. Hope that helps.

[Buenchico]

There's no (single) 'official' day for the start of any season. Different people use different definitions.

For example (since the sun reaches its highest point in the sky around that date), midsummer's day (aka the summer solstice) is on June 21st, with the winter solstice (with the sun at its lowest point in the sky) being on December 21st. Assuming all of the seasons to be of equal length, each season must about 91 days long, so the start and finish of summer must therefore be roughly 45 days either side of June 21st, making the last day of summer around August 12th.

However while that method of deciding when each season starts and ends might find favour with astronomers, it doesn't fit very well with most people's perceptions of when the seasons actually occur. Meteorologists have a far simpler way of looking at it: June, July and August are the warmest months in the UK, so those three months fall into 'summer'. That means that September, October and November form 'autumn'. December, January and February make up 'winter', while March, April and May are grouped together as 'spring'.

[EcclesCake]

No idea but I am sat here wondering if my heating has come on.

I flipping hope not as it is far too early in calendar terms.

[Buenchico]

Interestingly, I see that Pastafreak has given the (21st or) 22nd of September as the start of autumn.

I've come across that definition before but it's totally illogical since it's the date of the vernal equinox (when day and night are the same length).

So, according to the way that astronomers work (since June 21st is MIDsummmer's day and December 21st is MIDwinter's day), 22nd September should be MIDautum day. i.e. it';s the MIDDLE of autumn, NOT the start of it!!!

[bibblebub]

include the effect of the thermal conductivities of the land and sea on the weather in any considerations and the autumnal equinox is a good date to take as the start of autumn (in the way people generally conceive the seasons)

[bibblebub]

i meant capacitances not conductivities

[Obiter]

//Interestingly, I see that Pastafreak has given the (21st or) 22nd of September as the start of autumn.

I've come across that definition before but it's totally illogical since it's the date of the vernal equinox (when day and night are the same length).//

Surely the vernal equinox is in springtime, i.e. late March, or am I wrong?

[corylus]

The first day of autumn here was Saturday August 9th, darker morning, distinct drop in temperature, autumnal smell in the air, fields, trees and garden plants looking tired. A couple of sunny days since then but the heat has gone and rain had taken over.

[Tilly2]

Well, whatever date it is. I have just put the heating on. I refuse to dither in my own home.

[Retrochic]

Jourdain2 you can tell your bolshy daughter that she is actually correct!! Lammas is the first of the pagan harvest festivals and NOT the start of Autumn. Mabon, the second harvest festival and Autumn Equinox on the 21st September heralds the the Pagan and meteorological start of Autumn.

[Buenchico]

>>>Surely the vernal equinox is in springtime, i.e. late March, or am I wrong?

Yes, Obiter.

That's what happens when I post while still sober ;-)

My post should, of course, have referred to the autumnal equinox but my reasoning still stands!

[jno]

nothing to do with logic, Buenchico. People can call "summer" anything they like, as you say, and while some think June 21 is misdummer, I just think it's the longest day. I'd go with the meteorogists' call, while recognising that others disagree; but of course it isn't true everywhere in the world. In many parts, the only seasons are wet and dry.

[jno]

misdummer, that's a misnoma

[belrec]

saw this a little while ago:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/01/early-signs-of-autumn-already-appearing-in-natural-world

it seems that nature already feels it is autumn :-