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well thank you for all the offers of help, its much appreciated, and apologies for the lack of required information. Bizarrely this laptop - which is an acer aspire, is just coming up to 4 years old and was purchased with windows 7 installed - is back with us. don't ask how. I thought I would give it one more go. so switched on, attempted normal start up, pressed f8 for at least a minute, same black screen. so switched off, and switched on again immediately. this time a repair start up option appeared, so set that to run. this ran for a while, then eventually a restore to previous point option came up, selected this. eventually a message appeared saying unable to repair start up, please restart??? then, by a miracle, windows opened. slowly granted, but I at least have a functioning, if slow system. now I have to work out which of all these memory hungry processes that are running are absolutely necessary. for the moment though, will live with it. have put I-tunes into a folder which I can save externally. just have to get an external hard drive so that I can get everything on there, then I plan to try another restore to factory setting. did this before, and for a while everything was fine. I have noticed that every time I get windows updates, it becomes just a little slower. restoring to a previous point in time helps, for a little while. I think it may be getting time to lay it to rest, nothing lasts for ever. plus, I really want an I-mac air and cannot persuade the other half that we really need one!! which, happens to be true just now - but who knows. I think he thought I'd sabotaged it deliberately.