Business or Hire or Reward

[Neil1974]

I'm a courier and have been told i need H&R insurance as normal business cover wont cut it even though my occupation is courier.

I have been told the policy would be void and i will be driving illegally.
I have searched the net and cant find any evidence that i need H&R by law I only need 3rd party cover.

Can anyone help or show me where its states the type of insurance i need by Law.

I understand that if I dont have the correct insurance then any comprehensive claim may not be paid out but if i'm only third party does that even matter

Thanks
Neil

[bednobs]

who were you told by?

[Neil1974]

Other couriers. (pub advice)

Most couriers do have it and they are adament they need it.
However non can show proof of its legal requirement.

Its as if its an extra cover like windscreen cover.

I cant claim for my windscreen if i dont have cover for it but that doesnt mean I'm uninsured to drive my van on the road.

[bednobs]

why dont you ask your insurance company?

[Neil1974]

I have but they say I need it but cant point to the point of law that states it.

They also said I may still be covered under the road traffic act anyhow.

Struggling to find a definitive answer

I can find that I have to have 3rd party cover as a minimum legal requirement but not that i have any extra

[bednobs]

Why don't you ring a few more to ask. As insurance companies are a business, it's up to them , once you tell them your job, what sort of insurance they will offer you, regardless of whether it's extra to what the law requires. Also, what do your employers say? For example, mine insist on me having business cover because i claim mileage expenses for meetings. It's not law that i have business cover, but if i want to claim, i have to

[Neil1974]

Thanks Bednobs

I'm self employed So my boss doesnt know either.LOL

The problem with asking other companies is they will try and sell it anyway.

Thats why I'm trying to find absolute proof.

Dont want to waste any money

[bednobs]

get a new boss, that's what i say :)
anyway, try posting this in law or motoring - in my experience this section mves a lot slower than those two

[Mamyalynne]

This is from a company and may be biased but may help

http://www.staveleyhe...cle.php?articleId=304

[bednobs]

i found this - see page 18 http://www.selfemploy...0courier%20manual.pdf

[Neil1974]

Thanks folks

The guide made me chuckle Ive heard about it but not seen it.

I have posted on the motoring forum and linked to this thread.

[magicmerlin]

Third party, Third party fire & theft and comprehensive are levels of cover.

SDP, SDP&C, H&R etc are what you use the vehicle for.

As you are a courier then you are hiring you and your vehicle to your client to transport parcels etc for payment, therefor you need H&R cover. Similar to a taxi driver/bus driver transporting people.

I would have thought that you would need comprehensive cover. No matter how good a driver/rider you are there are other idiots out there that drive without any insurance at all.

If you had only third party insurance and one of those idiots hit you what would be the consequences for you?

[Neil1974]

I use a throw away car so comprehensive is over the top.

I understand the reasoning behind the need for H&R but what about the legal need for it.
Do I legaly need it or am i covered under the RTA for third party liabilities so would be classed as insured

Does not having the right use void the insurance companies obligations under the RTA.

Thanks
Neil

[woozer]

You need your insurer to issue cover on the correct basis so that your legally required Road Traffic Act cover is valid. In order for them to do this they have to issue the policy showing the correct business use and in your case it is Hire and reward. All the information you provide for an insurance policy must be correct and the policy must be issued on the correct basis otherwise it is not valid and you do not have the RTA cover

[Neil1974]

Cheers woozer.

Can you point me in the right direction of where that is stated in print.

(That sounds a little bit arsey but it wasnt meant to be)

Not that i doubt you but as yet no-one has been able to provide proof.

Its easy to provide proof that under the road traffic act i need 3rd party cover but cant find any link to not being covered for 3rd party liabilities if i dont have th correct use.

[magicmerlin]

As far as i can see from this web site:

http://www.opsi.gov.u..._en_12#pt6-pb1-l1g143

You are required to have a minimum of Third Party cover.

With regard to Hire & Reward usage, the way I understand it is that if you make a false declaration to Insurers and you have an accident the insurers can declare the insurance null & void. At that point you no longer have Third Party cover resulting in no cover under RTA 1988 (as per woozer's last sentence)

[Neil1974]

I have found this to throuw some more mud on it

Section 151 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 affords protection to victims of road traffic accidents when they have been injured by a driver who was not insured to drive the vehicle concerned, but where other drivers were insured to drive that vehicle. Broadly speaking, an insurer is a Road Traffic Act insurer if it has delivered a current certificate of compulsory motor insurance in respect of the offending vehicle at the time of the accident, although the insurance did not cover the offending driver.

[woozer]

Hi - the key to answering your question is for you to understand that your policy must be valid regardless of what level of cover or use you have. No insurance policy is valid unless it is written on the correct information - there is nowhere in the road traffic acts that states you must have the correct model of car on your policy, or that you must tell the insurer your age etc etc and the "use" is the same - it is an underwriting factor and so unless it is advised correctly to your insurer and shown correctly on your policy your policy will not be valid so you will not have the cover required by the road traffic act.

[Neil1974]

Thanks Woozer.

t says on my certificate that

Private purposes and use by the policy holder in person in connection with his/her business or profession including the carriage of goods or samples but excluding commercial travelling



So it mentions an exclusion "commercial travelling" which is a salesperson trying to drum up business (pretty much)

[woozer]

You should also have a schedule which should show your type of business and other details such as name address type of vehicle etc - presumably it will show your business as courier

[Broodkop]

Hire and reward insurance is for the taxi trade that takes money direct from the customer or couriers that gets paid directly from the customer and not from a sub contract to a courier company.