Isis Burns Jordanian Pilot Alive.

[ladybirder]

On Sky news now.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, //[ISIS] attracts attention-seeking sociopaths in all faiths//

What on earth are you talking about? Despite your protestations, you are naïve.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - "andy-hughes, //[ISIS] attracts attention-seeking sociopaths in all faiths//

What on earth are you talking about? Despite your protestations, you are naïve."

Care to expand on that?

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - "I would concede that religion is the cover for this organisation, the pseudo-righteousness
Please ignore my request to expand your point - I mistyped the response to which you refer, it should have read -

"... of the truly insane which attracts attention-seeking sociopaths as do all faiths ..."

Apologies for the confusion.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, these are not attention seeking sociopaths. They are religious fanatics intent on imposing their will upon the rest of the world.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - "andy-hughes, these are not attention seeking sociopaths. They are religious fanatics intent on imposing their will upon the rest of the world."

I think the two positions are not mutually exclusive.

It is possible to tell yourself that you are a deeply religious person, and still use that screen to carry out the urges of your sociopathic tendencies.

Which sits better with a group of potential joiners - "We are the true faith, and we will kill all who don't follow our faith ..." or, "We are a bunch of insane sadistic murderers who like hurting and killing people ..."

I know which one floats better as a recruitment flag.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, Again you’re making the mistake of assuming that your mindset can be compared to that of Islamic fundamentalists. It can’t. Psychoanalysing people whose lives are driven and ordered wholly by their faith simply doesn’t work. What are you going to do? Attempt to cure them – or at the very least to re-educate them? Good luck with that! The only thing they're telling themselves is that they are fighting quite justifiably in the cause of Allah.

[beso]

Religion is not a screen but fundamental to the problem.

It goes back much further than Islam. The problem lies with all the Abrahamic faiths which are firmly based in the glorification of bigotry, murder and genocide. Anyone who has read the books and dares to acknowledge what is written there in blank and white should be able to confirm this. The command to murder in the name of God clear.

How so ever the religious and their apologists try to twist the meaning there can be no denying that the behaviour by those in IS is conspicuously modeled in the likes of Joshua and his band of Hebrews who brutally slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people in the name of their God.

While the so called moderates of the Abrahamic religions continue to uphold the books as the Word of their God, by whatever name, they continue to give implicit support to those who follow the texts more closely than they do.

Only when moderates denounce the entire concept of so called prophets relaying the word of God to the Holy books will we be able to relegate the actions of IS and their kind to being pure psychopathic violence by a relatively small number of nutters.

Even Christians, despite the message of love and peace continue to give credence to those who use violence to glorify God.

The bottom line is every Abrahamic sect gleefully anticipates the day when their God slaughters all who do not bow down to Him. This includes Christians so their message of peace is really nothing more than a thin veil of respectability over a fundamentally pathological philosophy.

We must stand up and denounce these stone age attitudes wherever we find them. Tell the world that we do not accept the notion of prophets, any prophets, or the books that supposedly tell of God's intentions.

Such beliefs are dangerous nonsense and certainly not worthy of our respect.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - "Again you’re making the mistake of assuming that your mindset can be compared to that of Islamic fundamentalists. It can’t. Psychoanalysing people whose lives are driven and ordered wholly by their faith simply doesn’t work."

You are crediting me with a view that I do not hold.

I have opined many times on here, when people ask why people can do the dreadful things they do, that there is not sense in applying rationale and logic when it simply does not apply.

Application of thought processes nurtured in a loving and compassionate mind to the sort of horror we have here is never going to get close to working - I am entirely aware of that.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, your views seem to change momentarily - it's all quite confusing - but good, I'm very pleased you're aware that there's no sense in applying rationale and logic because that's what you appear to have been attempting to do.

[jim360]

Perhaps it would be better to say that "there's no sense in applying our rationale and logic". Everything ISIS does can be said to make sense and follow logically from a particular position. It is just that this position is so wildly removed from our own starting points.

[naomi24]

Jim, //it would be better to say that "there's no sense in applying our rationale and logic". //

I assumed that was a given.

[jim360]

Ah, fair enough.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - "andy-hughes, your views seem to change momentarily - it's all quite confusing - but good, I'm very pleased you're aware that there's no sense in applying rationale and logic because that's what you appear to have been attempting to do."

I am not aware that my fundamental views have changed - I have always believed that religious fanaticism is used to cover insane behaviour, and that insane behaviour cannot be rationalised.

The ideas can be analysed certainly, but in terms of putting a rational mind into the thinking of an irrational mind, that is never going to happen, and I don't believe I have ever suggested that it could.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, //I have always believed that religious fanaticism is used to cover insane behaviour//

You said earlier that the basis of IS thinking is not rooted in religion and that religion is a convenient peg on which to hang their hatred and violence, but it has nothing to do with Islam – so where does the religious fanaticism you now mention come in? See my confusion?

beso, people just don't see it.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I share some of Naomi's confusion.
Proposition 1: "...but it has nothing to do with Islam".
Proposition 2: "I have always believed that religious fanaticism is used to cover insane behaviour"..
I'm trying to understand and reconcile these two statements, Andy. If 2 is right then 1 can't be literally true, can it? That is to say the fanaticism DOES have a religious (in this case Islamic) justification, however perverse or warped that justification might be. And thus I take your first proposition to mean that no proper and reasonable understanding of Islam could be used to justify the "insane behaviour" of ISIS. Is that a fair reading of the points you're making in your two posts?

[Hypognosis]

@TWR

"…shower of human Excrement"

Hmm. Lightbulb. It's cheaper than conventional bombs.

Or would that class as chemical/biological warfare?

@andy & naomi

I can't wrap me head around "attention-seeking sociopath". Surely that's a contradiction in terms?