At What Point Do We Stop Battling To Keep People Alive?

[RATTER15]

I work with people with dementia, some of the people are quite happy in their own worlds some are not. I quite often here people say "I wish I could die" and I often have to agree that their life is so miserable that they should be allowed to die. The problem with dementia is, can they make that an informed decision? generally not!

How do we decide?

[Cathyhuns]

A Health and Welfare Lasting Power of Attorney is not a Living. It is a document which appoints other people to make decisions about your health, once you are no longer capable. It is then their decision on what treatment you get and they make those decisions according to their conscience.

[RATTER15]

Cathyhuns, I agree but that only goes so far, they can not authorize the withdrawing of food, liquids or medication to end someone's life.

[dave50]

Medical science is enabling doctors to keep people alive until they are older than nature intended but in a lot of cases their brain is dying but their body is still functioning. Is that really the way to go?

[RATTER15]

dave50, // in a lot of cases their brain is dying but their body is still functioning// and vice versa.

[ganesh]

Agree totally Ratter, we are not allowed to 'kill' and yet we let people go on with no quality of life and sometimes even ask to die. We don't leave animals suffering but for some reason let our own species linger. My mother had dementia and now my mother-in-law has it. She is in a private nursing home 9nhs will not pay for her) and yet the only thing she can do for herself is breathe. She has to be fed with pureed food, toileted, hoistered into a bath and can't even speak or recognise anyone. Occasionally she cries. This has gone on for several years now and I can't believe people think it is right not to give a lethal injection.Her brain has died so she can not make an 'informed decision' but I know that no-body would want their final years like this. Our society needs to grow up and put people out of their misery.

[pixie373]

It's a very good question, ratter. I also agree that many are very happy with dementia, even the majority - it's relatives that find it harder. So I would be worried about Living Wills, where people might agree ahead- but in ignorance. You can't tell how you will be affected by it yourself. Also, GPs (and often relatives, tbh) often don't know the person well enough by that stage to be able to judge for them. You need to be around someone fairly consistently to really understand how they are affected by it.
I've heard many people say they would hate to live with dementia. With my experience of it- and the care they get- I would rather live with dementia than be mentally able and bedbound. I think I would find that much more frustrating.

[chaptazbru2]

I totally agree with ganesh, that poor, poor lady's life is a living hell. A dear friend is her early 80's of my parents is hospitalised after a third stroke. She cannot move, lies in a foetal position, cannot speak and yet they operated on her to insert a 'peg' in her stomach so that she could be fed. WHY????? She will never recover.

[ganesh]

I don't agree with you, Pixie, that many with dementia/alzheimers are 'happy'. In my experience, as 'chap' says it becomes a living hell towards the end which seems to be able to go on for years. Even in the beginning it upset MY mother when she knew that it was happening and her memory problems really started. It was truly heartbreaking to see her relatives become unrecognisable to her, and so many of them suffer with anxiety when they start to 'lose it', and forget where they are and how to do things. I don't know how you can say the majority are happy, we must have VERY different experiences!

[pixie373]

We obviously do. It seems worse when it's milder often as they are aware something is wrong, but can't do anything about it. I still think it's nearly always harder on the relatives. It definitely doesn't apply to everybody, but I've looked after people with dementia daily for 16 years (no idea how many in total) and that's my observation.

[TWR]

Been there Ratter, No one has the right to decide, It's sad to see their life's just drifting away & the looks the persons gives you, the only thing you can do is give them the care that the persons need, providing that is given, you have done your best.

[RATTER15]

Totally agree Pixie, I have looked after people with dementia for nearly 10 years in a specialist Dementia unit as a senior carer, including looking after my own mother in law at home and bed bound for the last three years.

Unless you work with these people daily and see them living their lives you will never know them, yes of course some have a dreadful time, no one is denying that. It really depends on the type of dementia and how they are cared for, if cared for by people with little or no understanding of their very specific requirements (and every person has very different requirements) then the carers can make their life a lot more difficult and very unhappy indeed. I bet so many people with dementia are being kept at home and cared for by families that have no idea how to care for these people, and they are putting these people through hell due to their lack of understanding of the disease. I certainly don't think that every person with dementia should be rushed into a home but I do think that carers looking after family members need a lot more training and knowledge of the disease to fully understand their role as a dementia carer to enable them to care for these people appropriately and enable them to live at home happily.

[pixie373]

Exactly right. It's understanding the individual and responding to them appropriately that makes all the difference.

[Canary42]

No doubt the persistent clamour for euthanasia will eventually succeed the way the relentless clamour for abortion did, and we will have another set of people joining the fate of the unborn foetuses without having a say in the matter themselves.

[pixie373]

I don't know.....the only people in both those situations who would have a say are those affected. Nobody else can decide.