Listener No 4335 The Old Swan By Jago

[Ruthrobin]

Thank you Jago for a gentle romp. A fine curtain raiser for the Listener setters' dinner.

[contendo]

Without the internet the title would be a bit of an enigma to most people. And here was I wondering about the relevance of HANDTOWELS.

[olichant]

Well, I admit the clues were too easy for my taste for a Listener (compared for example with the Saturday Times, for example, which I thought was fantastic this week). So I might feel a tiny bit grumpy - except I haven't a clue about the manhunt! Comments here are encouraging though - I'll put it to one side and give it some thought later.

This month's Magpie looks great for those who would like a few additional challenges...

[jim360]

I thought the Magpie editorial was rather interesting too. I've just recently delivered a talk to various of my fellow students, all early-mid twenties, and it was a toss-up between (thematic) cryptic crosswords or something else. I went with something else in the end, worrying that crosswords might be too boring, but if I get the chance to deliver a second talk later this year I'll go with crosswords after all.

[olichant]

Incidentally, for anyone who follows George v Listener (and I fully recommend it if you haven't come across it before) he is doing an online survey for the best mathematical puzzle of 2014. I've cast my vote!...

[easterfool]

Well I enjoyed this and for once finished before the end of Friday - and I can catch up on a few other things this week too. I reckoned the clues to be fair, the theme was obvious but I don't mind that sometimes to make up for the weeks when I struggle. Thanks Jago - enjoyed the dinner too

[tristram37]

I am getting really fed up with the carping comments of the solving snobs. If it's been accepted by the editors then it's Listener standard. End of.

[Contrarian]

So you think that the editors are infallible?

[AndrewG-S]

The guidelines for setters state

The essence of a Listener crossword is elegance and subtlety of theme and clueing, not difficulty
per se.

I think the editors should seek to apply the guidelines. So while comments might be made on elegance and subtlety, simple ease of completion is less relevant. I enjoyed this puzzle as I do most listeners even if it was not the most elegant.

[tristram37]

Not necessarily infallible. But their decision is final (rather like umpires in cricket before DRS).

[Garaman]

It is quite normal for supporters to question an umpires decision between themselves, I hope that you are not suggesting that they shouldn't. In the same manner it seems perfectly fine that solvers should be able to say if they think that a puzzle shouldn't have been published as a Listener. Some of us think that there have been quite a few of late and whilst others might not agree we should be able to say so without an 'end of', which is an awful expression.

[Contrarian]

"we should be able to say so without an 'end of', which is an awful expression"

Couldn't agree more.

[tristram37]

"End of" Nor can I. I don't know what I was thinking of. Apologies - it won't happen again.