ChatterBank0 min ago
Proof A Witness Lied In Court?
convicted by false testimony in court. The evidence is;
Witness police statement: "Upstairs for 20mins and then saw crime happen at 6pm"
Police officers statement; Said to the officer "It happened at just now" five minutes after 999 call was made at 7:15pm
Facebook post; "Im sunbathing in back garden" at 5:50pm.
crime happened at front of house
So is their enough evidence to prove perjury and get the witness convicted
Witness police statement: "Upstairs for 20mins and then saw crime happen at 6pm"
Police officers statement; Said to the officer "It happened at just now" five minutes after 999 call was made at 7:15pm
Facebook post; "Im sunbathing in back garden" at 5:50pm.
crime happened at front of house
So is their enough evidence to prove perjury and get the witness convicted
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a window was broken. The witness said to the police officer it happened at 7:15pm, according to the officers statement. The witness then says, in his statement, it happened at 6pm. the witness also states he was upstairs, in his bedroom for 20 minutes between 5:40pm and 6pm. In his facebook post he says he was in his garden at 5:50pm(the time the post was made) which contradicts his statement. what he told the police officer also contradicts his statement
Who was convicted and what of?
Did this matter go to trial and did this witness give "live" evidence?
Were the police convinced that the witness was telling lies?
The fact that the witness ptovidded conflicting evidence should have been challenged in court (if live evidence was provided there). Was it? If so what was the outcome of that challenge?
Sorry there are more questions and no answers but this is not as straightforward as you might think.
Did this matter go to trial and did this witness give "live" evidence?
Were the police convinced that the witness was telling lies?
The fact that the witness ptovidded conflicting evidence should have been challenged in court (if live evidence was provided there). Was it? If so what was the outcome of that challenge?
Sorry there are more questions and no answers but this is not as straightforward as you might think.
How do you know that the Facebook post wasn't a ruse? That is, he thinks someone with ill-intent is watching his FB page, so he posts to say he is out the back while he goes upstairs to watch what's happening in the street.
Lo and behold! Someone comes around and breaks his window.
Complete fiction, of course, but how can anyone refute it given only the facts presented so far?
A more absurd version would be that he breaks his own window (you didn't say whether it was the upstairs or downstairs window) with the sole purpose of pinning it on someone else. Presumably you?
@trt
FB post timestamps are outside the user's control so I guess your point is that accounts or the user's computer can get hacked so that post cannot be 100% attributed to him.
Another puzzle: jojon, you are so keen to get this person convicted that he can hardly be a friend or relative, so I cannot understand how you are able to view his FB page at all. How do you know what you know?
Lo and behold! Someone comes around and breaks his window.
Complete fiction, of course, but how can anyone refute it given only the facts presented so far?
A more absurd version would be that he breaks his own window (you didn't say whether it was the upstairs or downstairs window) with the sole purpose of pinning it on someone else. Presumably you?
@trt
FB post timestamps are outside the user's control so I guess your point is that accounts or the user's computer can get hacked so that post cannot be 100% attributed to him.
Another puzzle: jojon, you are so keen to get this person convicted that he can hardly be a friend or relative, so I cannot understand how you are able to view his FB page at all. How do you know what you know?
A car window was broken. The car was owned by the sister of the witness. The sister/owner did not press charges or make a statement. The witness dialed 999 at around 6pm and stated his sister's window had 'just' been smahed whilst parked on the street(sister was not home).
He was asked to give a description of suspect. He did not. He gave the name of the defendant, his neighbour, and said he saw him running down the street.
5 or 10 minutes later a police officer arrived and arrested the defendant as he was leaving his house. After some discussion with the witness the police officer took the defendant the station. The officer, in his statement, states the witness said the window had 'just' smashed
The defendant represented himself at magistrates court and was convicted, in absence, of criminal damage. The hearing lasted about 30 minutes(defendant was late) so we can presume the witness statement was read to the court. The defendant saw none of the witness in court. It is not clear what happened at this hearing.
The court previously appointed a legal advocate to cross ex. on behalf of the defendant as the witness' evidence may be diminished if questioned by the defendant. Witness is a normal adult. The court instructed firm states no advocate attended
The case was appealed at crown court with legal representation and failed. The witness did give 'live' evidence as did the police officer.
the police officer gave evidence first basically said 'i arrested him'. The judge told the prosecution to call him first
The witness stated in court(as he did in his statement) that he came home from work at 5:40pm went upstairs came back down at 6pm and heard smashig glass and saw the defendant.
The fb post, date stamped 5:50pm, states 'love smoking in the sun'. No sun on the front so he must have been in his back garden This was not mentioned in court
The witness was not asked why he told the police officer it happened at 6pm.
The 999 call was not presented to the court, nor was the witness asked about it
He was asked to give a description of suspect. He did not. He gave the name of the defendant, his neighbour, and said he saw him running down the street.
5 or 10 minutes later a police officer arrived and arrested the defendant as he was leaving his house. After some discussion with the witness the police officer took the defendant the station. The officer, in his statement, states the witness said the window had 'just' smashed
The defendant represented himself at magistrates court and was convicted, in absence, of criminal damage. The hearing lasted about 30 minutes(defendant was late) so we can presume the witness statement was read to the court. The defendant saw none of the witness in court. It is not clear what happened at this hearing.
The court previously appointed a legal advocate to cross ex. on behalf of the defendant as the witness' evidence may be diminished if questioned by the defendant. Witness is a normal adult. The court instructed firm states no advocate attended
The case was appealed at crown court with legal representation and failed. The witness did give 'live' evidence as did the police officer.
the police officer gave evidence first basically said 'i arrested him'. The judge told the prosecution to call him first
The witness stated in court(as he did in his statement) that he came home from work at 5:40pm went upstairs came back down at 6pm and heard smashig glass and saw the defendant.
The fb post, date stamped 5:50pm, states 'love smoking in the sun'. No sun on the front so he must have been in his back garden This was not mentioned in court
The witness was not asked why he told the police officer it happened at 6pm.
The 999 call was not presented to the court, nor was the witness asked about it
Sorry, jonjon, but I really think you’re backing a loser here.
I assume this is a case of Criminal Damage. To prove the case the prosecution needs to show, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant caused damage to property deliberately and without permission. I don’t know who you believe is guilty of perjury but if you believe somebody is you need to make a complaint to the police.
A few things of which you need to be aware:
- It is not in anybody’s power (victim, witness or anybody else) to “press charges” (or not). Whether to prosecute is a matter solely for the CPS and they will not do so unless they have sufficient evidence to support a reasonable chance of a conviction and that a prosecution is “in the public interest”.
- If a witness is asked to identify an alleged miscreant and he can name him it is a better form of identification than describing him. If he can describe, say, what he was wearing at the time, it will add to the strength of his evidence, but it is not necessary.
- If he did not arrive in time at the Magistrates’ Court the trial will proceed in his absence. If it was agreed (at the case management hearing) that witnesses would attend for the trial they will still give their live evidence.
Since the matter was appealed at the Crown Court the evidence has now been heard twice. There is no further right of appeal. I think you should let the matter rest.
I assume this is a case of Criminal Damage. To prove the case the prosecution needs to show, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant caused damage to property deliberately and without permission. I don’t know who you believe is guilty of perjury but if you believe somebody is you need to make a complaint to the police.
A few things of which you need to be aware:
- It is not in anybody’s power (victim, witness or anybody else) to “press charges” (or not). Whether to prosecute is a matter solely for the CPS and they will not do so unless they have sufficient evidence to support a reasonable chance of a conviction and that a prosecution is “in the public interest”.
- If a witness is asked to identify an alleged miscreant and he can name him it is a better form of identification than describing him. If he can describe, say, what he was wearing at the time, it will add to the strength of his evidence, but it is not necessary.
- If he did not arrive in time at the Magistrates’ Court the trial will proceed in his absence. If it was agreed (at the case management hearing) that witnesses would attend for the trial they will still give their live evidence.
Since the matter was appealed at the Crown Court the evidence has now been heard twice. There is no further right of appeal. I think you should let the matter rest.
@jojon43
Thanks for the extra detail you provided but still a few missing pieces.
What was the date of the incident and which compass direction does the front of the house face towards?
(For confidentiality's sake, please don't post the street name in the hope we'll look it up for ourselves).
Thanks.
Thanks for the extra detail you provided but still a few missing pieces.
What was the date of the incident and which compass direction does the front of the house face towards?
(For confidentiality's sake, please don't post the street name in the hope we'll look it up for ourselves).
Thanks.
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