Why Should We Pay

[DIMWITT]

My passport is up for renewal soon , I had a shock when I found I was going to £72.50 to renew it , at 70 years of age that's quite a lot of money . I have just renewed my driving licence and that's cost me nothing . I think it's a cheek to ask that amount for a passport .I saw in the paper a few weeks ago that the passport office have made millions in profit , so why not hand a bit back to pensioners , a mere drop in the ocean out of their profit , or do they want to keep us oldies in the uk ?

[whiskeryron]

Hear Hear EDDIE51

[Old_Geezer]

Given they would be zero use solving at that problem, and simply allow the authorities to monitor decent citizens in what is supposed to be a free country, I'm more surprised the citizens in some foreign countries simply roll over and allow it; especially given the experiences of some eastern European countries in living memory.

[whiskeryron]

Old_Geezer, if you are that old you will remember that we all had ID cards when WW2 was happening. Did it do us any harm ? It allowed authorities to stop & check suspicious characters to determine they had a right to be here. In this day & age of unrest with suspected terrorists aiming to harm our citizens I think you would be crazy to vote against ID cards, I personally would welcome them.

[ummmm]

I too think they should be compulsory.

[whiskeryron]

I will just add to my previous answer that I would be very happy to pay, for my own protection & piece of mind.

[Cloverjo]

So, if someone has a card saying their name and date of birth, they won't let off a bomb on the Tube?
How would that keep you feeling safe?

[New Judge]

The trouble is, ron, that it will provide you with neither.

There are many hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who are not entitled to be here and whom the authorities have no intention of removing or incarcerating. (I'm thinking of those whose claims to settle here are pending or who have been refused permission to stay and have been traced by the Border Agency and have no papers so cannot be deported).

Presumably these people will not be issued with an identity card (if they did it would make a nonsense of the system) and so those who wish to do damage will mingle in with them.

[whiskeryron]

So what is the actual & honest reason for people's objection to ID cards ?
Is it because people do not want to be registered & given a number ?
As we speak you all have a National Insurance number ( if you are entitled to be here ), if you drive a vehicle ( legally) you are registered with the National Vehicle Agency, your name & address & other details are registered with a doctor ( and /or hospital) you are registered on the electoral role ( again if you are legally entitled to be here ). So PLEASE PLEASE tell me WHY it is such a big deal having ID cards issued.

[New Judge]

I think the concern that most people have, ron, is that the compulsory possession of an identity card is but a small step away from the compulsion to carry it with one at all times.

The other things mentioned (passport, driving licence, etc.) only have to be carried for a specific purpose (and in the case of a driving licence do not have to be carried at all but only produced later on demand). If ID cards become compulsory it will be an easy matter for the State to demand they are always carried and failure to produce one could lead to incarceration (even if only for a short time). We don’t have people carted off for failing to prove who they are in the UK (unless they are suspected of a crime and the police are not sure that they are who they say they are).

Having said that, some sort of document to prove entitlement to medical treatment (accidents and emergencies excepted) would be very desirable, but once again it should need to be carried only for that purpose.

I don’t think many people like the idea of being asked “Vere are your papers?” when going about their business and it is that they fear rather than the document itself.

[Old_Geezer]

Well Ron you will also remember the court case that determined they should no longer be necessary when the war was over, and an emergency situation no longer existed. And quite right too. The State should be limited on what it can demand of the public. Carrying papers just to be allowed to officially exist is way over the edge. The authorities exists for the benefit of the citizen, the citizen does not exist for the benefit of the authorities.

[Samuraisan]

In my opinion an ID card would save a lot of people getting benefits and NHS that are not entitled. We have lived in Spain for 40 years and have had an ID card all that time and have never ever been required to show it without a reason, i.e. to prove identity using a credit card or store card ( quite happy to do that ). If we need to use the NHS , and yes Spain has one equally as good as the one in the UK, we have a medical card with our ss no. with all our history and prescriptions. So I don't see the problem and they must make it easier to control illegals.

[tara20]

In Austria we have ID cards which are optional but very handy to have in your purse if needed. Many institutions ask for proof of ID.
For this reason I don't think we have the problems with identity theft like in the UK. They are also accepted as travel documents in Europe.

[New Judge]

The Spanish authorities may take a more sensible approach to such matters, Samuraisan. Unfortunately the UK authorities cannot be rusted to do likewise.

As I said, it will make no difference to the control of people not entiled to be here. Even if everybody was required to carry one those without "their papers" will face no sanction. Illegals are already apprehended regularly. They are not held securely; they are simply told to report to the Border Agency. Some do (once or twice then disappear), most don't. If the BA cannot prove where they originated from there is nothing they can do with them. Carrying an ID card will not alter that.

All that compulsion will do is to give busybodies the opportunity to interfere with people going about their business. It will be easy meat to levy "fixed penalties" for those not carrying their card. Local authorities will employ staff (as they currently do to impose penalties on those dropping dog ends) and the whole thing will become a money making scam which will fleece people of their hard earned. But it will do absolutely nothing to control our borders; nothing to prevent abuse of the benefits and health services; nothing to help expel those not entitled to be here.